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Re: Somewheres

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 2024-09-02, jerryfriedman <jerry.friedman99@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Loss of the final consonant in "of"
>
> and "and"
>
> While my finger was clicking on "Send", my brain realized that the
> final consonant of "an" has disappeared when not followed by a
> vowel, and the final consonant of the determiner "mine" first
> disappeared when not followed by a vowel, then completely.
> "Thine" went through a similar process while it was mostly
> disappearing".). And "I" used to have a final consonant.

Yes.  I was thinking in terms of general sound changes.  Very high
frequency words show irregular attrition.

For a striking example, compare the conjugation of the unremarkable
Latin verb "habere" and that of its descendant, French "avoir".
You might think that "avoir" was cobbled together from different
stems, like "être" and "aller", but no, it's all from "habere",
albeit aggressively reduced and transformed from heavy use as an
auxiliary.

Also, endings can be lost in specific grammatical contexts while
persisting elsewhere.  Since the reduction of vowels in final
syllables to [ə] between Old and Middle High German, there hasn't
been a general change affecting endings in German, I think.  However,
people who studied German as a foreign language are probably very
aware of the masculine/neuter singular strong dative -e, e.g. "mit
dem Kind(e)".  Apart from fixed expressions, conscious archaization,
or such, that -e is completely dead now, but you'll still find it
in texts from the 19th and early 20th century.  Nowadays, first
person singular -e in verbs is under pressure.  But there is no
general change that would delete final -e across Standard German.

> Deletion of final consonants and vowels in a High German dialect

Standard German is notably conservative.

> in this folk song as Brahms set it.
>
> Da unten im Tale
> Läuft's Wasser so trüb
> Und i kann dir's nit sagen
> I hab' di so lieb.

Note the parallel developments in the history of English:

ich  > i  : ic  > I
dich > di : ðec > thee

-- 
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber                          naddy@mips.inka.de

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Somewheres Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-08-31 09:45 +1000
  Re: Somewheres jerry.friedman99@gmail.com (jerryfriedman) - 2024-08-31 02:37 +0000
    Re: Somewheres Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-08-31 08:01 +0200
      Re: Somewheres occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2024-08-31 09:27 +0200
        Re: Somewheres Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-08-31 19:12 +0200
          Re: Somewheres Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2024-08-31 17:26 -0400
            Re: Somewheres Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2024-09-01 04:26 -0300
            Re: Somewheres Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2024-09-02 12:08 +0100
              Re: Somewheres Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-09-02 14:00 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2024-09-03 09:32 +0100
              Re: Somewheres Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2024-09-02 14:23 +0100
                Re: Somewheres Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2024-09-02 16:28 +0100
                Re: Somewheres Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-03 04:50 +0200
          Re: Somewheres Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-09-01 07:59 +0200
            Re: Somewheres Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-01 18:25 +0200
              Re: Somewheres Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-01 19:03 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Chris Elvidge <chris@x550c.mshome.net> - 2024-09-01 19:02 +0100
                Re: Somewheres musika <mUs1Ka@NOSPAMexcite.com> - 2024-09-01 20:12 +0100
                Re: Somewheres Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-01 22:55 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-03 04:13 +0200
            Re: Somewheres lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2024-09-01 10:31 -0600
              Re: Somewheres Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-01 19:05 +0200
                Re: Somewheres occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2024-09-02 10:10 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2024-09-02 12:11 +0100
              Re: Somewheres Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-09-02 09:59 +1000
                Re: Somewheres Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-09-02 08:26 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-09-02 23:11 +1000
                Re: Somewheres Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-09-02 17:22 +0200
                Re: Somewheres jerry.friedman99@gmail.com (jerryfriedman) - 2024-09-02 14:31 +0000
                Re: Somewheres Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2024-09-02 13:06 -0400
              Re: Somewheres Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-03 04:14 +0200
                Re: Somewheres lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2024-09-02 23:26 -0600
          Re: Somewheres Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2024-09-03 20:11 +0300
            Re: Somewheres Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-04 10:25 +0200
        Re: Somewheres Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2024-09-02 13:09 +0200
          Re: Somewheres Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com> - 2024-09-02 11:22 +0000
      Re: Somewheres Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-08-31 21:50 +1000
        Re: Somewheres wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) - 2024-08-31 20:20 +0000
        Re: Somewheres lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2024-08-31 15:41 -0600
          Re: Somewheres Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-09-01 09:44 +1000
            Re: Somewheres Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2024-09-01 00:40 -0400
            Re: Somewheres Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-09-01 08:09 +0200
          Re: Somewheres wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) - 2024-09-01 00:37 +0000
        Re: Somewheres Bill Day <extree@verizon.net> - 2024-09-01 10:43 -0400
          Re: Somewheres Chris Elvidge <chris@x550c.mshome.net> - 2024-09-01 19:03 +0100
          Re: Somewheres Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2024-09-02 11:48 +0100
            Re: Somewheres lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2024-09-02 23:32 -0600
    Re: Somewheres Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> - 2024-08-31 06:36 -0700
  Re: Somewheres Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2024-08-31 14:43 +1200
    Re: Somewheres Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-08-31 08:05 +0200
  Re: Somewheres Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com> - 2024-08-31 15:53 +0000
    Re: Somewheres Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-09-01 09:45 +1000
      Re: Somewheres Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2024-09-02 11:49 +0100
        Re: Somewheres Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-09-02 23:12 +1000
          Re: Somewheres Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-09-02 17:23 +0200
    Re: Somewheres Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-09-01 09:49 +1000
      Re: Somewheres Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com> - 2024-09-01 08:37 +0000
        Re: Somewheres bebercito@aol.com (Bebercito) - 2024-09-01 12:05 +0000
          Re: Somewheres Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com> - 2024-09-01 13:07 +0000
            Re: Somewheres bebercito@aol.com (Bebercito) - 2024-09-01 14:24 +0000
              Re: Somewheres Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com> - 2024-09-01 15:47 +0000
        Re: Somewheres Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-01 15:39 +0200
          Re: Somewheres Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com> - 2024-09-01 15:49 +0000
        Re: Somewheres jerry.friedman99@gmail.com (jerryfriedman) - 2024-09-01 19:27 +0000
          Re: Somewheres Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2024-09-02 11:43 +0530
            Re: Somewheres Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-09-02 23:29 +1000
              Re: Somewheres Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-02 17:13 +0200
              Re: Somewheres Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-09-02 17:29 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2024-09-02 16:34 +0100
                Re: Somewheres Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-02 18:00 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2024-09-03 09:31 +0100
                Re: Somewheres Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-09-02 18:55 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2024-09-03 09:30 +0100
                Re: Somewheres Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-09-03 18:19 +0200
              Re: Somewheres Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2024-09-02 16:31 +0100
                Re: Somewheres Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-09-02 19:01 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2024-09-03 09:33 +0100
              Re: Somewheres Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2024-09-02 19:26 +0000
                Re: Somewheres jerry.friedman99@gmail.com (jerryfriedman) - 2024-09-02 20:12 +0000
                Re: Somewheres jerry.friedman99@gmail.com (jerryfriedman) - 2024-09-02 20:25 +0000
                Re: Somewheres Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2024-09-04 18:17 +0000
                Re: Somewheres Sergio Gatti <sergiogatti@meine-wahrheit-deine-wahrheit.de> - 2024-09-04 21:51 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2024-09-05 20:42 +0000
                Re: Somewheres Sergio Gatti <sergiogatti@meine-wahrheit-deine-wahrheit.de> - 2024-09-06 08:17 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2024-09-14 15:57 +0000
                Re: Somewheres Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com> - 2024-09-22 15:37 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-09-23 09:48 +1000
                Re: Somewheres Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com> - 2024-09-24 08:11 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-09-05 08:04 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2024-09-05 07:41 +0100
                Re: Somewheres Helmut Richter <hr.usenet@email.de> - 2024-09-05 11:06 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-09-05 12:20 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Helmut Richter <hr.usenet@email.de> - 2024-09-05 12:28 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2024-09-04 17:54 +0000
                Re: Somewheres jerry.friedman99@gmail.com (jerryfriedman) - 2024-09-05 14:28 +0000
                Re: Somewheres Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2024-09-14 13:59 +0000
              Re: Somewheres Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2024-09-02 19:48 +0000
                Re: Somewheres Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2024-09-03 08:59 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2024-09-04 18:36 +0000
                Re: Somewheres Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2024-09-04 19:06 -0700
              Re: Somewheres Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-09-03 09:17 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Helmut Richter <hr.usenet@email.de> - 2024-09-03 10:51 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-09-03 18:25 +0200
                Re: Somewheres nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-09-03 21:48 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-09-04 10:29 +0200
                Re: Somewheres Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2024-09-05 12:00 +0100
                Re: Somewheres Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-09-05 15:12 +0200
            Re: Somewheres jerry.friedman99@gmail.com (jerryfriedman) - 2024-09-02 15:37 +0000
              Re: Somewheres Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2024-09-03 22:19 +0530
      Re: Somewheres dougstaples@gmx.com (LionelEdwards) - 2024-09-01 15:50 +0000
        Re: Somewheres dougstaples@gmx.com (LionelEdwards) - 2024-09-01 16:25 +0000
        Re: Somewheres Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-09-02 10:08 +1000
  Re: Somewheres bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (bertietaylor) - 2024-09-01 06:01 +0000
    Re: Somewheres bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (bertietaylor) - 2024-09-03 23:39 +0000

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