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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #72915

Re: ot - snowden, the short version

From Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Newsgroups comp.sys.mac.system
Subject Re: ot - snowden, the short version
Date 2015-04-09 10:37 +0000
Organization Miskatonic U
Message-ID <slrnmicllo.9pt.g.kreme@amelia.local> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <080420151049556091%nospam@nospam.invalid> <lYGdnUGBS5th27jInZ2dnUU7-LOdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <080420151147142426%nospam@nospam.invalid> <6o2dncZ9zdaew7jInZ2dnUU7-KOdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <5525830b$0$54679$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af@news.astraweb.com>

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In message <5525830b$0$54679$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af@news.astraweb.com> 
  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 15-04-08 12:57, Kurt Ullman wrote:

>> At least the stuff I have seen from Snowden doesn't (seem) to support 
>> that. The metadata is a non-issue that has been in place (and litigated 
>> to the satisfaction of the Supremes) since Smith V Maryland in late 70s 
>> where the Supreme Court held that Smith had no reasonable expectation of 
>> privacy in the numbers dialed from his phone because

> The problem is that the spy agencies refuse to make public their own
> internal definition of "metadata".

> Consider an email.

> Strictly, the phone equivalent of "metadata" would be a record of an IP
> address making a TCP connection to an IP servers at port 25.  (In
> canada, the law states something to the effect of collecting what is
> necessary to estanblish the connection).

> BUT, if you want to know from whom and to whom the email message is
> being sent, you have to capture the data being exchanged. And that
> happend in 2 phases, the  SMTP handshake (application level) where you
> specify MAIL FROM: and MAIL TO: , and then there is the DATA phase.

> It *could* be argued that this initial handshake is necessary to
> establish the email delivery. (although this is more data processing
> than telecom).

> That DATA phase  gets worse. None of that information is necessary for
> the delivery of the message. However, NSA and friends will look into the
> RFC822 header to look at the Subject:, and the From: and To: and other
> textual data and they consider that "metadata".

Let's not pick nits, they are interception the entire email message AND
all attachments.

> Are they going to start to look at the actual content of messages to
> scan for attachement names in case their spot "nuclear_bomb_plans.pdf" ?

They already do.

> They could still claim they don't look at your content, only "metadata"
> since the attachement headers could be considered "medatata" by NSA and
> friends.

They do, because NSA employees were tracking their exes and reading
their emails. The only way they were reading their emails is if they had
the entire email archived.

And the 5 eyes agreement means that even if by some miracle the NSA is
not gathering all the information on every American, they just get it
from the Brits, who are.


-- 
The difference between science fiction and fantasy in this world is not any of
the elaborate rules that you hear. The difference is simply this: Science
Fiction has rivets, Fantasy has trees. -Orson Scott Card

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Thread

ot - snowden, the short version "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-04-06 17:16 -0400
  Re: ot - snowden, the short version Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-04-06 20:50 -0400
    Re: ot - snowden, the short version Martin Frost me at invalid stanford daht edu <nospam@stanford.edu.invalid> - 2015-04-06 20:13 -0700
    Re: ot - snowden, the short version Martin Frost me at invalid stanford daht edu <nospam@stanford.edu.invalid> - 2015-04-06 20:14 -0700
      Re: ot - snowden, the short version dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2015-04-07 15:52 +1000
    Re: ot - snowden, the short version dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2015-04-07 15:51 +1000
    Re: ot - snowden, the short version befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2015-04-07 14:47 +0200
    Re: ot - snowden, the short version Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-04-07 09:37 -0400
      Re: ot - snowden, the short version JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-04-07 13:20 -0400
        Re: ot - snowden, the short version nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-07 13:27 -0400
          Re: ot - snowden, the short version JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-04-07 15:46 -0400
            Re: ot - snowden, the short version J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2015-04-07 16:25 -0400
              Re: ot - snowden, the short version JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-04-07 17:35 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2015-04-07 20:13 -0400
            Re: ot - snowden, the short version Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-07 18:58 -0400
        Re: ot - snowden, the short version Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2015-04-08 03:11 +0000
          Re: ot - snowden, the short version nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-07 23:34 -0400
          Re: ot - snowden, the short version JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-04-07 23:56 -0400
            Re: ot - snowden, the short version befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2015-04-08 09:31 +0200
            Re: ot - snowden, the short version Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2015-04-08 12:51 +0000
          Re: ot - snowden, the short version Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-04-08 10:27 -0400
            Re: ot - snowden, the short version nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-08 10:49 -0400
              Re: ot - snowden, the short version Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-08 15:59 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-04-08 08:37 -0700
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-04-08 14:12 -0400
              Re: ot - snowden, the short version Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-08 11:19 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-08 11:47 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-08 12:57 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-08 18:09 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-08 13:56 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-08 19:02 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-08 16:50 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-08 22:00 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-08 19:56 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-04-08 21:14 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-04-08 21:32 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-04-08 14:11 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-08 14:24 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-08 16:57 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-04-08 15:35 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-09 10:37 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-04-08 21:25 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-04-08 21:45 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2015-04-09 09:26 +0200
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-09 12:44 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-09 10:06 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-04-08 15:25 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Raymond Wiker <rwiker@gmail.com> - 2015-04-08 17:57 +0200
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-08 19:05 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-08 21:49 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-09 10:33 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-09 13:23 +0100
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-09 12:46 +0000
              Re: ot - snowden, the short version JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-04-08 11:23 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-08 16:32 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-04-08 08:46 -0700
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-08 18:08 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-04-08 14:09 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-04-08 15:52 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-04-08 16:46 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> - 2015-04-08 17:57 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-04-08 20:05 -0700
    Re: ot - snowden, the short version "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-04-07 11:30 -0400
    Re: ot - snowden, the short version Electric Comet <electric-comet@mail.invalid> - 2015-04-07 10:29 -0700

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