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Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on

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Il 25/10/2021 20:33, Niklas Holsti ha scritto:
> On 2021-10-25 20:52, pozz wrote:
>> Il 25/10/2021 17:34, Niklas Holsti ha scritto:
>>> On 2021-10-25 16:04, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>>> On 10/25/2021 11:09, Niklas Holsti wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-10-24 23:27, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/24/2021 22:54, Don Y wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/24/2021 4:14 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Disable interrupts while accessing the fifo. you really have to.
>>>>>>>>> alternatively you'll often get away not using a fifo at all,
>>>>>>>>> unless you're blocking for a long while in some part of the code.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why would you do that. The fifo write pointer is only modified by
>>>>>>>> the interrupt handler, the read pointer is only modified by the
>>>>>>>> interrupted code. Has been done so for times immemorial.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The OPs code doesn't differentiate between FIFO full and empty.
> 
> 
> (I suspect something is not quite right with the attributions of the 
> quotations above -- Dimiter probably did not suggest disabling 
> interrupts -- but no matter.)
> 
>     [snip]
> 
> 
>> When I have a small (<256) power-of-two (16, 32, 64, 128) buffer (and 
>> this is the case for a UART receiving ring-buffer), I like to use this 
>> implementation that works and doesn't waste any element.
>>
>> However I know this isn't the best implementation ever and it's a pity 
>> the thread emphasis has been against this implementation (that was 
>> used as *one* implementation just to have an example to discuss on).
>>
>> The main point was the use of volatile (and other techniques) to 
>> guarantee a correct compiler output, whatever legal (respect the C 
>> standard) optimizations the compiler thinks to do.
>>
>> It seems to me the arguments againts or for volatile are completely 
>> indipendent from the implementation of ring-buffer.
> 
> 
> Of course "volatile" is needed, in general, whenever anything is written 
> in one thread and read in another. The issue, I think, is when 
> "volatile" is _enough_.
> 
> I feel that detection of a full buffer (FIFO overflow) is required for a 
> proper ring buffer implementation, and that has implications for the 
> data structure needed, and that has implications for whether critical 
> sections are needed.
> 
> If the FIFO implementation is based on just two pointers (read and 
> write), and each pointer is modified by just one of the two threads 
> (main thread = reader, and interrupt handler = writer), and those 
> modifications are both "volatile" AND atomic (which has not been 
> discussed so far, IIRC...), then one can do without a critical region. 
> But then detection of a full buffer needs one "wasted" element in the 
> buffer.

Yeah, this is exactly the topic of my original post. Anyway it seems 
what you say isn't always correct. As per C standard, the compiler could 
reorder instructions that involve non-volatile data. So, even in your 
simplified scenario (atomic access for indexes), volatile for the head 
only (that ISR changes) is not sufficient.

The function called in the mainloop and that get data from the buffer 
access three variables: head (changed in ISR), tail (not changed in ISR) 
and buf[] (written in ISR ad read in mainloop).

The get function firstly check if some data is available in the FIFO and 
*next* read from buf[]. However compiler could rearrange instructions so 
reading from buf[] at first and then checking FIFO empty condition.
If the compiler goes this way, errors could occur during execution.

My original question was exactly if this could happen (without breaking 
C specifications) and, if yes, how to avoid this: volatile? critical 
section? memory barrier?

David Brown said this is possible and suggested to access both head and 
buf[] as volatile in get() function, forcing the compiler to respect the 
order of instructions.


> To avoid the wasted element, one could add a "full"/"not full" Boolean 
> flag. But that flag would be modified by both threads, and should be 
> modified atomically together with the pointer modifications, which (I 
> think) means that a critical section is needed.

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How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2021-10-23 00:07 +0200
  Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2021-10-23 13:40 +1100
  Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-10-22 22:09 -0700
    Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2021-10-23 22:12 +0200
      Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-10-23 15:59 -0700
  Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-23 18:09 +0200
    Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2021-10-23 22:49 +0200
      Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-24 13:02 +0200
        Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2021-10-24 17:39 +0200
          Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-24 18:37 +0200
    Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2021-10-25 20:15 +0200
      Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-25 20:54 +0200
      Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-10-25 20:31 -0400
  Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Johann Klammer <klammerj@NOSPAM.a1.net> - 2021-10-24 12:39 +0200
    Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2021-10-24 14:14 +0300
      Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-10-24 12:54 -0700
        Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2021-10-24 23:27 +0300
          Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-10-24 14:08 -0700
            Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2021-10-25 00:50 +0300
              Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-10-24 15:47 -0700
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2021-10-25 02:32 +0300
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-10-24 18:34 -0700
            Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-25 09:41 +0200
            Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-10-25 10:56 +0300
              Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-10-25 01:19 -0700
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-10-25 11:52 +0300
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-10-25 02:50 -0700
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-25 13:49 +0200
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-10-25 15:16 +0300
          Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-10-25 11:09 +0300
            Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-10-25 01:28 -0700
              Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-10-25 12:06 +0300
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-10-25 02:35 -0700
            Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2021-10-25 16:04 +0300
              Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-10-25 18:34 +0300
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-10-25 10:43 -0700
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2021-10-25 20:53 +0300
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-10-25 11:02 -0700
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2021-10-25 19:52 +0200
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-10-25 11:10 -0700
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-10-25 21:33 +0300
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2021-10-25 22:09 +0300
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-10-25 22:53 +0300
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2021-10-25 23:02 +0300
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-26 00:05 +0200
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2021-10-25 23:46 +0200
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-25 20:58 +0200
            Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2021-10-26 08:43 +1100
        Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-10-25 21:32 +0000
          Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-10-25 15:24 -0700
            Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-10-27 00:20 +0000
              Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-10-26 17:52 -0700
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-10-27 05:22 +0000
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-10-29 15:36 -0700
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-10-31 22:54 +0000
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-10-31 20:37 -0700
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-11-11 04:34 +0000
                Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-11-19 16:21 -0700
      Re: How to write a simple driver in bare metal systems: volatile, memory barrier, critical sections and so on David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-25 08:57 +0200

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