Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void) > sizeof(int) ?

From	David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void) > sizeof(int) ?
Date	2021-09-02 21:07 +0200
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<sgr7dr$2gc$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <sgocps$nqd$1@dont-email.me> <sgoe5r$2rv$1@dont-email.me> <sgokl2$h9j$1@dont-email.me> <sgqcis$esi$1@dont-email.me> <c7656818-0421-4cb3-8759-afb2f2661267n@googlegroups.com>

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On 02/09/2021 16:28, Michael S wrote:
> On Thursday, September 2, 2021 at 2:29:45 PM UTC+3, David Brown wrote:

>> 4-bit devices are almost invariably stack machines, so that their 
>> assembly looks like a restricted version Forth. And they are almost 
>> invariably programmed either directly in that assembly, or a slightly 
>> higher level variant of Forth. I have not heard of C implementations 
>> for 4-bit devices. 
>>
>> Nor did I talk about what programming languages I might want, or say 
>> anything about what /you/ are allowed to do.
> 
> 
> Which 4-bit devices are still in wide use?

I don't know which are much in use - they are not generally stocked by
public suppliers, nor are their datasheets and information publicly
available.  If you are a big enough user to be interested in these
things, you talk directly to the manufacturers.  They certainly used to
be standard in things like remote controls, wireless keys, tire sensors,
clocks, "amusing" musical birthday cards, toys, and countless other
mass-produced devices.  They might also turn up inside other microchips
which hardware designers use without ever knowing or caring that there
is a processor inside.

The most easily accessible 4-bit device for mere mortals was the Atmel
MARC4 series, but that was removed from public availability in 2015
(IIRC).  But it should not be too hard to google for some old datasheets
if you are interested.  And I am sure Atmel continues to supply them to
big customers.

> Which of them are stack machines?

All of them.  With such short instructions, you don't waste instruction
code space on things like register numbers or addressing modes.

> Without ever programming 4-bitter or even looking at architecture of 4-bitter I would expect that 
> most of them are accumulator-based designs rather that stack machines, except that
> some could have tiny HW stack dedicated for subroutine calls.
> 

That is common for 8-bit devices, with the AVR series as one of the few
exceptions.  (Dedicated HW stack for returns is usually only for the
very smallest devices.  The smallest AVR I used had no ram, only its 32
8-bit registers and a three entry hardware return stack.)

Thread

Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-08-30 21:59 -0500
  Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2021-08-30 21:53 -0700
    Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2021-08-30 21:59 -0700
  Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2021-08-31 09:01 +0200
    Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-08-31 23:46 -0500
      Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-09-01 08:19 +0200
      Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-09-01 15:32 +0000
        Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-09-01 19:20 +0200
          Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-09-01 19:44 +0200
            Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-09-01 13:17 -0500
              Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-09-01 20:32 +0200
              Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-09-01 19:00 +0000
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-09-01 15:06 -0500
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-09-01 20:14 +0000
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-01 14:04 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-09-01 23:44 +0000
            Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-09-01 20:37 +0200
              Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-09-01 12:43 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-09-02 05:37 +0200
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-09-02 11:28 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-09-03 07:10 +0200
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-09-03 06:59 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-09-03 17:02 +0200
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-09-03 19:33 +0200
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-09-03 19:47 +0200
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-09-03 17:54 +0000
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-09-03 20:54 +0100
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-09-03 20:52 +0000
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-09-04 12:36 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-09-03 10:49 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-09-03 19:10 +0100
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-09-03 14:20 -0400
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-09-03 19:45 +0100
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-09-03 16:35 -0400
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-09-04 13:12 +0200
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-09-04 09:11 +0200
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-09-04 11:27 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-09-05 04:25 +0200
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-09-06 16:10 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-09-08 19:44 +0200
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-09-08 11:45 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-09-09 19:09 +0200
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-09-09 10:51 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-09-10 10:31 +0200
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-09-10 10:41 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-09-14 04:14 +0200
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-09-14 07:45 -0700
            Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-09-01 20:34 +0100
              Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-09-01 13:02 -0700
              Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-09-01 20:18 +0000
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-01 14:07 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-09-01 22:18 +0100
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2021-09-01 18:23 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-09-02 13:35 +0200
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-09-02 05:24 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2021-09-02 14:56 -0600
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-07 21:12 +0100
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-09-07 22:19 -0400
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-12 21:23 +0100
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-09 08:36 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-09-01 17:46 -0500
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-09-01 16:53 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-09-02 17:11 -0500
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-09-01 16:59 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-09-01 17:01 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-09-02 01:29 +0100
              Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-09-02 13:29 +0200
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-09-02 14:19 +0100
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-09-02 17:10 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-02 07:28 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-09-02 21:07 +0200
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-02 13:05 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-09-02 17:18 -0700
                Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-09-03 01:25 +0100
  Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Mark Bluemel <mark.bluemel@gmail.com> - 2021-09-01 03:30 -0700
    Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Mark Bluemel <mark.bluemel@gmail.com> - 2021-09-01 03:36 -0700
    Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-09-01 12:49 -0500
      Re: Examples of current platforms/architectures where sizeof(void*) > sizeof(int*) ? Mark Bluemel <mark.bluemel@gmail.com> - 2021-09-01 14:30 -0700

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