Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #218533

Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work?

From	Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Newsgroups	alt.folklore.computers
Subject	Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work?
Date	2021-07-24 21:35 +0000
Organization	NewsGuy - Unlimited Usenet $23.95
Message-ID	<sdi12m2663@news3.newsguy.com> (permalink)
References	(14 earlier) <819c3d24-c0f5-48b5-998c-6bb6a5bd00e9n@googlegroups.com> <sd1grk014qp@news3.newsguy.com> <c770534d-3aba-4287-b69a-d656257e9bb0n@googlegroups.com> <1374957347.648582817.135247.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> <2dd153ce-8419-4949-be4d-fb4aaf0bb1a6n@googlegroups.com>

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On 2021-07-23, undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, July 21, 2021 at 2:08:33 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>
>> When designing a system we considered the program with the most files
>> and figured how much memory would be required for double-buffering.
>> We’d usually start looking at half-track blocking, then look at
>> single-buffering on some datasets if we couldn’t do double. Systems
>> design was fun in the olden days.
>
> On the smaller S/360 and equivalent competitors (e.g. RCA Spectra),
> physical size was limited but files could be big.  Careful design
> was required, as you describe, to fit everything in without flogging
> the machine.
>
> In my opinion, sometimes data centers would attempt to do too much
> on their machines of the time--loading too much data volume or program
> complexity onto a machine that simply wasn't up to handling it.
> Programmers would pull all sorts of tricks to squeeze it all in,
> and be on standby if something blew up--which happened often.  

Part of this was due to computer salesmen lowballing hardware
requirements.  Once the machine had been sold and installed,
it was usually too late to back out, so the customer sucked it
up and paid for the additional hardware that, had they known,
they would have needed all along.

> And it seemed that no sooner that they got a bigger machine then they
> loaded another new bulky application on it which continued the old
> problems.

Parkinson's Law states that work expands so as to fill the time
available for its completion.  There are various corollaries,
such as programs expanding to fill available memory, data files
expanding to fill available drives, etc.

> Indeed, I think these problems continued until roughly 1990 (depending
> on a site) when hardware finally got cheap enough that they could buy
> adequately sized and powered machines (enough memory, I/O channels,
> disk and space, and CPU speed).

Alas, there is a difference between "could" and "did".  Even in the
last few years we've run into problems when customers scrimped on
disk space: not just with inadequate drives but also with bad
partitioning schemes.
									x
> There was a sense of pride in knowing how to use the reference cards
> and optimize settings to get improved performance and space usage.
> Likewise in coding for efficiency.
>
> Indeed, that was fun.
>
> On the flip side, as mentioned above when systems were squeezed to
> the hilt, failures were common and a nuisance to fix.  Getting a phone
> call at 3 a.m. to come in (no home terminals then) was not much fun
> and happened too often.

BTDTGTS (been there, done that, got the scars)
That's why, for a long time, I didn't have a telephone at home.
It had to be a _real_ emergency before someone would drive over,
bang on the door, wake up the landlady, and have her get me.

> I think at least one data center programmers got tired of the 3 a.m. 
> phone calls and pressured management to spend the money to
> upgrade the machine to reduce troubles.
>
> At least a few data centers suffered massive resignations when
> staff just got tired of problems.

You just had to pray that management was intelligent enough to
take the hint.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  They don't understand Microsoft
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  has stolen their car and parked
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  a taxi in their driveway.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Mayayana

Thread

iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-06-16 11:59 -0700
  Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-06-16 16:08 -0400
    Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-06-26 12:40 -0700
      Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-06-26 15:14 -0600
        Re: s/3, s/34, s/36, and so forth not iBM System/3 FORTRAN John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-06-27 01:27 +0000
        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-28 17:28 -0700
          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-06-29 22:47 +0000
        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-06-29 12:55 -0700
      Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-28 17:28 -0700
        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-06-29 13:04 -0700
          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-06-29 21:33 +0000
            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-30 11:44 -0700
            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-01 11:40 -0700
          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-30 11:44 -0700
            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-06-30 15:56 -0400
              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-06-30 22:15 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-07-01 05:12 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-07-01 06:28 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-07-01 13:28 +0100
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-07-03 01:19 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-07-03 10:14 +0100
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2021-07-03 10:43 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? sidd@situ.com - 2021-11-02 07:18 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-02 09:26 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-02 05:07 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2021-11-02 15:28 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? sidd@hugin.membrane.com - 2021-11-16 01:50 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-01 11:25 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-01 11:34 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-01 15:56 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-01 20:57 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-02 23:28 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-02 18:26 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-07-05 13:39 -1000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-03 18:40 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-08 14:51 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-08 15:06 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-08 17:19 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 07:32 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 07:41 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 13:30 -0400
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-10 13:29 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 17:13 -0400
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 22:32 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-11 12:46 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-07-11 13:58 -1000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-13 15:03 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-07-13 18:19 -1000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-07-13 18:50 -1000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-16 11:33 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-16 22:40 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-16 23:13 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-17 19:12 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-17 21:33 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-18 15:20 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-20 12:05 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-07-21 05:29 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-21 17:14 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-23 12:19 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-24 21:35 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-26 13:13 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? gah4 <gah4@u.washington.edu> - 2021-07-27 22:13 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-21 11:08 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-23 12:16 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-24 21:35 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-26 13:09 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-20 22:49 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-23 12:01 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-13 14:55 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-07-14 10:03 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-13 15:11 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-13 21:42 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-14 00:39 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-20 12:07 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? gah4 <gah4@u.washington.edu> - 2021-07-27 22:07 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-29 21:19 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-29 21:20 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-30 07:57 -0700
                Re: why PL/I makes us sad, iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-07-11 02:23 +0000
                Re: why PL/I makes us sad, iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 21:23 -0700
                Re: why PL/I makes us sad, iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-07-11 18:46 +0000
                Re: why PL/I makes us sad, iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-11 12:46 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-07-01 20:22 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-07-01 19:00 -0400
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-11-02 08:54 -0600
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-10-05 22:56 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-05 23:13 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 03:55 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-06 12:32 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-10-06 14:11 +0100
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-06 13:34 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 04:00 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 04:07 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 04:11 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-10-06 12:50 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-10-06 12:49 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 17:40 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-10-07 06:18 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-10-06 13:22 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 04:18 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 04:21 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-10-06 12:45 +0000
              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-06-30 18:23 -0700
            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-06-30 18:10 -0700
            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-01 11:36 -0700
              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-02 23:28 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-03 10:32 +0100
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-03 18:40 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-04 09:13 +0100
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-07 12:46 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-07 21:19 +0100
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-08 15:01 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 17:06 -0400
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-08 05:15 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-08 15:01 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 19:39 -0400
        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2021-06-30 17:58 -0600
  Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-06-18 14:31 -0400
    Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-06-18 16:00 -0400
      Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-06-26 12:47 -0700
        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 16:40 -0400
          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-06-26 15:20 -0600
            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-06-27 11:28 +0100
              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-06-27 13:40 -1000
              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-28 17:28 -0700
            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2021-06-27 16:00 -0500
        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-28 17:28 -0700
  Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-17 09:47 -0800
    Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-17 18:06 +0000
      Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-11-17 22:28 +0000
        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-18 01:00 +0000
          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-11-18 01:51 +0000
          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-18 06:06 +0000
    Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-11-17 13:06 -0500

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