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Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging?

From David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Newsgroups linux.debian.user
Subject Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging?
Date 2016-09-01 16:00 +0200
Message-ID <scAH7-2zZ-21@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <sa7pT-4uc-11@gated-at.bofh.it> <sbNQ5-32D-19@gated-at.bofh.it> <sbRh0-5rv-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <scdAS-2Rr-11@gated-at.bofh.it> <scedA-34F-33@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On Tue 30 Aug 2016 at 09:05:36 (-0400), Stefan Monnier wrote:
> [...] Are you saying [TOX] doesn't have reliable
> message delivery?  If so, that'd be a deal breaker for me.

On Wed 31 Aug 2016 at 09:44:01 (-0400), Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > It's better that your message Not arrive instead of being disclose! and
> > This is the philosophy behind True P2P IM systems.
> 
> Oh, I don't need 100% absolutely guaranteed delivery.
> 
> Just some reasonable expectation that messages won't be silently dropped
> on the floor in fairly normal circumstances.

Not knowing what the application is, it's difficult to do more than
throw a few suggestions into the ring (and have them shot down, to mix
metaphors).

I've seen things mentioned that I'd never heard of, like Astrachat,
AMQP, Protonmail, to mention but three. So it might be time to
weigh things up with a summary of what you've learned, and perhaps
to rank them on scales of reliability, centralisation, security, etc.

You appear to have enough requirements perhaps to think about using
two parallel systems in combination, as I suggested in
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/08/msg00604.html
(which only addressed the online/offline problem).

> >> Stefan "shocked that anyone would want to design or use an
> >> unreliable messaging system"

There are plenty of precendents: scratching on walls, tossing bottles
into the ocean, exporting golden records. Obviously EMI were convinced
that those records would be retrieved by someone within 100 years and
pirated, as they refused permission to export "Here Comes the Sun"
from the solar system.

Cheers,
David.

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Thread

Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2016-08-13 05:00 +0200
  Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Ben Finney <ben+debian@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-08-13 06:10 +0200
  Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2016-08-15 14:40 +0200
    Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> - 2016-08-16 18:40 +0200
      Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2016-08-16 22:20 +0200
      Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2016-08-17 04:50 +0200
        Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Ben Finney <ben+debian@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-08-17 05:30 +0200
          Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2016-08-17 13:40 +0200
  Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2016-08-15 16:30 +0200
  Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? "Amir H. Firouzian" <firouziyan@gmail.com> - 2016-08-17 08:30 +0200
    Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-17 20:00 +0200
    Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> - 2016-08-25 20:20 +0200
      Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? "Amir H. Firouzian" <firouziyan@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 11:50 +0200
        Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2016-08-30 15:30 +0200
          Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 16:00 +0200
            Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2016-08-30 16:10 +0200
              Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 16:10 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-30 20:30 +0200
              Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-08-30 17:00 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2016-08-30 17:50 +0200
              Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-08-30 18:20 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 18:40 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-08-30 23:40 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-30 19:50 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 20:40 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-30 21:30 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 23:10 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-30 23:30 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 01:50 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-08-31 00:30 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-31 01:40 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 02:00 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-08-31 22:10 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-01 12:10 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2016-08-31 16:20 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Mark Fletcher <mark27q1@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 16:50 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 17:40 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2016-08-31 17:40 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-08-31 20:10 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-01 22:30 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2016-08-31 18:10 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 18:20 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 18:40 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2016-08-31 18:50 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 20:20 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2016-08-31 20:50 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 23:10 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-08-31 21:30 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-01 20:50 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-08-31 21:40 +0200
              Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2016-08-30 18:50 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-30 20:00 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2016-08-30 21:50 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-30 23:50 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2016-08-30 21:10 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-30 21:50 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2016-08-30 22:30 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2016-08-30 22:10 +0200
            Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2016-08-30 17:50 +0200
              Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 18:00 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 20:00 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-30 20:00 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 20:20 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-30 21:00 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 22:20 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 22:20 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 20:20 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 08:30 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2016-08-31 09:50 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? claude juif <claude.juif@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 11:00 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-31 14:40 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? claude juif <claude.juif@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 10:40 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 21:20 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 11:50 +0200
            Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2016-09-02 15:50 +0200
              Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2016-09-02 18:40 +0200
          Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? "Amir H. Firouzian" <firouziyan@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 15:20 +0200
            Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2016-08-31 15:50 +0200
              Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? "Amir H. Firouzian" <firouziyan@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 20:20 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2016-09-01 18:30 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? "Amir H. Firouzian" <firouziyan@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 20:30 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2016-09-01 21:10 +0200
            Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2016-08-31 16:00 +0200
              Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? claude juif <claude.juif@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 10:30 +0200
              Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-01 16:00 +0200
            Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-31 20:30 +0200
              Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? "Amir H. Firouzian" <firouziyan@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 22:40 +0200
  Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Ralph Katz <ralph.katz@rcn.com> - 2016-08-17 16:20 +0200
    Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2016-08-17 16:50 +0200
      Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Ralph Katz <ralph.katz@rcn.com> - 2016-08-17 18:50 +0200
        Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2016-08-17 19:40 +0200
          Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2016-08-17 20:30 +0200
            Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-17 21:00 +0200
              Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-08-17 21:30 +0200
  Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? "Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)" <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2016-09-01 17:10 +0200
    Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> - 2016-09-01 22:20 +0200
      Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2016-09-02 07:50 +0200
        Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? "Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)" <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2016-09-03 15:40 +0200
      Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-02 11:50 +0200
      Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? "Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)" <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2016-09-03 15:30 +0200
        Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2016-09-07 15:20 +0200
          Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Paul Johnson <baloo@ursamundi.org> - 2016-09-07 15:50 +0200
          Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? "Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)" <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2016-09-07 17:50 +0200
            Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2016-09-07 19:00 +0200
              Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2016-09-08 01:10 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2016-09-08 01:30 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> - 2016-09-08 02:00 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2016-09-08 05:50 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Ben Finney <ben+debian@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-09-08 06:30 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2016-09-08 13:40 +0200
                Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2016-09-08 13:50 +0200
                GNU (was Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging?) "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2016-09-08 15:20 +0200
                Re: GNU (was Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging?) Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2016-09-08 15:40 +0200
                Re: GNU "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2016-09-08 16:20 +0200

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