Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #216058

Re: AI and decompilation?

From	druck <news@druck.org.uk>
Newsgroups	alt.folklore.computers, comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject	Re: AI and decompilation?
Date	2021-01-05 21:20 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<rt2l7m$cll$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<rsusgg$f24$1@dont-email.me> <51f6vf56b3eeacskirm9b54sr7kuf8s1pl@4ax.com> <rsvi0n$epp$7@dont-email.me> <zBIIH.63573$1X1.11761@fx05.iad> <rt1f0b$d1f$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 05/01/2021 10:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Yes. I am certain that certain compilers and certain languages leave a 
> fingerprint, Always THAT resister, used to do THAT job, always that 
> particular sequence of assembly to mimic that high level construct.

They certainly do, I wrote !ARMalyser to analyse RISC OS executables and 
to aid the conversion from the old 26 bit ARM mode to modern Aarch32. It 
was very obvious if Norcroft C, GCC or handwritten assembly had been 
used by looking at any chunk of the code, not just the obvious file headers.

> I think it is up to a limited point entirely possible to make an AI that 
> could replace  machine code with editable and compilable  source code.
> But there will always be the Problem Of Induction. Many many possible 
> constructs in source using an infinite number of random variable and 
> function  names, could compile to the same object code. And there is no 
> way to reinstate the comments either, so it becomes an exercise 
> ultimately in hand editing and reinstating the comments manually - 
> almost as big a job as writing from scratch.

I was not attempting to turn the executable in to a high level language, 
but to give the user as much help understanding the assembler code as 
possible, to aid the conversion.

At the lowest level identifying what was code and what was data, easy in 
well defined executable formats produced by compilers, but hard in 
handwritten assembler, which had often used every trick in the book to 
squeeze out performance on a 8MHz ARM2 with 512MB of RAM.

The next step was using knowledge of the Standard C Library functions 
and SWI APIs to annotate the registers passed and returned from the APIs 
and where those registers contain static addresses, the data blocks they 
point to.

To allow code to be modified with additional instructions to recreate 
flag preserving behaviour of the 26 bit code (in the few cases it is 
actually necessary) and data added to make the larger 32 bit file 
headers, all code and data addresses are identified and converted in to 
labels.

ARMalyser outputs in the standard Object Assembler syntax so it can be 
reassembled to produce an identical executable, and subsequently 
modified. It can also add syntax colouring in various formats such as 
XML, HTML/CSS for viewing.

If you were in marketing you could say the code which does this is 'AI', 
but its really a huge chunk of tangled heuristics, which works well most 
of the time, but occasionally miss-identifies code or data. Its a bit 
too eager to identify code, due to the tricks assembler programmers 
used, if I ripped all that out and only worked on compiler generated 
executables, it would be a lot more reliable.

---druck

Thread

AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 11:00 +0000
  Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-04 11:42 +0000
  Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-04 13:08 +0000
    Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 17:51 +0000
      Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-04 21:57 +0000
        Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 22:23 +0000
          Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-04 23:09 +0000
        Re: AI and decompilation? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 17:50 -0500
          Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-04 23:00 +0000
            Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 16:59 -0700
            Re: AI and decompilation? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 20:42 -0500
              Re: AI and decompilation? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 20:59 -0500
            Re: AI and decompilation? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 20:55 -0500
              Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-05 10:38 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2021-01-05 12:46 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-05 13:43 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2021-01-05 14:23 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 15:22 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 09:05 -0500
            Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 10:51 +0000
              Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-05 11:52 +0000
              Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 12:06 +0000
              Re: AI and decompilation? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-05 20:12 +0000
              Re: AI and decompilation? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-05 20:12 +0000
          Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 11:45 +0000
            Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 14:25 -0700
        Re: AI and decompilation? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 20:38 -0500
          Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 11:54 +0000
          Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 14:06 -0700
            Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 22:52 +0000
        Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 10:29 +0000
  Re: AI and decompilation? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-04 11:05 -0500
    Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-04 17:07 +0000
      Re: AI and decompilation? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-04 17:52 +0000
        Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 10:28 +0000
          Re: AI and decompilation? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-05 13:06 +0000
            Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 13:41 +0000
            Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 15:30 +0000
              Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-05 16:42 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-05 20:12 +0000
            Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 14:25 -0700
            Re: AI and decompilation? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2021-01-06 14:17 +0200
              Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 12:42 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2021-01-06 16:42 +0200
                Re: AI and decompilation? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-08 09:48 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-08 10:27 +0000
              Re: AI and decompilation? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:40 +0000
          Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 14:06 -0700
            Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-05 22:27 +0000
              Re: AI and decompilation? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-06 00:14 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-06 08:25 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-08 21:52 -0500
                Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-09 15:37 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-10 06:40 -0700
              Re: AI and decompilation? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-06 15:15 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-06 16:09 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-06 17:07 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-06 17:38 +0000
          Re: AI and decompilation? druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2021-01-05 21:20 +0000
    Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 17:47 +0000
    Re: AI and decompilation? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 14:18 -0500
      Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 16:54 -0700
    Re: AI and decompilation? Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2021-01-04 23:01 +0000
  Re: AI and decompilation? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2021-01-04 20:11 +0000
  Re: AI and decompilation? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 09:07 +0000
    Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-05 09:47 +0000
      Re: AI and decompilation? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 11:13 +0000
        Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 12:12 +0000
          Re: AI and decompilation? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 13:39 +0000
            Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 15:32 +0000
              Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 15:40 +0000
          Re: AI and decompilation? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-05 16:02 +0000
        Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-05 18:27 +0000
        Re: AI and decompilation? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 21:15 +0000
          Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 22:54 +0000
    Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 11:56 +0000
      Re: AI and decompilation? A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> - 2021-01-05 14:11 +0000
        Re: AI and decompilation? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2021-01-05 14:22 +0000
        Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 15:35 +0000
          Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-05 18:47 +0000
            Re: AI and decompilation? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-05 20:15 +0000
    Re: AI and decompilation? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 07:32 -0500
    Re: AI and decompilation? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-05 16:00 +0000
  Re: AI and decompilation? Adrian Caspersz <email@here.invalid> - 2021-01-05 11:26 +0000
    Re: AI and decompilation? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-05 13:07 +0000
      Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 13:42 +0000
      Re: AI and decompilation? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2021-01-05 18:31 +0000
  Re: AI and decompilation? "K. Krause" <klemens.krause@gmx.net> - 2021-01-05 16:01 +0100
  Re: AI and decompilation? druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2021-01-05 20:51 +0000
    Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 22:51 +0000
      Re: AI and decompilation? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-08 22:23 -0500
  Re: AI and decompilation? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-02-12 15:40 +0000

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