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Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong?

From Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong?
Date 2020-09-08 21:10 +0000
Organization NewsGuy.com
Message-ID <rj8s0f32ab8@news2.newsguy.com> (permalink)
References <rj0qk3$c7f$1@dont-email.me> <20200905224442.e34b8d7ab55a1210d1ce9d87@eircom.net>

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On 2020-09-05, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 20:57:50 +0100
> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> With MS-DOS
>
> 	Was OK ish.
>
>> and early versions of Windows,
>
> 	Wouldn't run multiple DOS applications, I wasn't impressed.
>
>> Microsoft
>> provided products to help you control your computer, but
>
> 	Hmm, "DOS ain't done 'till Lotus won't run" - remember that ?

Yup.  Also, later, "Best viewed with Internet Explorer".

>> with W10 they are trying to control the way you use the
>> computer.
>
> 	Not new.

No, but the coercion is getting noticeably stronger.
Sort of like macOS.

>> So, just before my 35th year of being a Microsoft
>> customer and user, they have finally succeeded in
>> driving me away.
>
> 	They never managed to attract me in the first place, but then the
> first time I came across the idea that their code might not be the best was
> at Newbury Labs when Basil's student programmer (whose name I think was
> Clive but ICBW) came down the stairs shouting "We've done it, we've got 16K
> BASIC into 4K of ROM", meaning all the features of a typical Microsoft 16K
> BASIC.

My reasons are far more mundane.  Like the COPY command refusing to
copy a zero-length file - although it would still delete a file of the
same name if one already existed.  That little "feature" made a beta
site die, and took a month's worth of data with it.

Or Windows' lackadaisical attitude about deleting files.  "OK, I'll
do it - when I feel like getting around to it."  So if your program
copies a file to a work file, making changes as it goes, then deletes
the file and renames the work file back to the original name, there's
a small but finite chance that the rename will fail because the delete
hasn't yet been done.  If you have 1000 customers running that program
a couple of times daily, it won't be long before you get anguished
calls about missing files.

Microsoft has some serious philosophical problems, which are
too deeply ingrained in the corporate culture for me to ever
feel safe with them.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  Apple is a cult.
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  Linux is anarchy.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  Pick your poison.

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Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-05 20:57 +0100
  Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-05 20:40 +0000
  Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-05 22:44 +0100
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-08 21:10 +0000
  Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-09-05 22:50 +0000
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 19:35 -0400
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-06 07:12 +0100
        Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-02 09:36 -0700
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-02 19:05 +0100
            Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-07-02 21:44 +0100
              Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-02 22:16 +0100
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2021-07-03 00:57 +0000
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-07-02 23:05 -0500
              Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Fred Weigel <fridtjof.martin.weigel@gmail.com> - 2021-07-02 16:03 -0700
              Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-07-03 17:35 +0000
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-07-04 08:35 +0100
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-02 11:28 -0700
            Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-02 23:28 +0000
              Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-03 10:21 +0100
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-03 22:16 +0000
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-07-03 21:07 -0400
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-03 18:40 -0700
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-06 04:36 -0700
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-07-06 17:42 +0100
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-06 16:52 +0000
            Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-06 04:34 -0700
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-05 17:59 -0700
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 22:07 -0400
        Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-06 06:30 -0700
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-06 10:02 -0400
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-09-06 17:47 +0300
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-09-06 08:12 +0000
        Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-09-11 08:22 +0000
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-06 16:23 +0100
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-06 16:19 +0100
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-06 22:51 +0000
  Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-09-05 17:01 -0600
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-06 08:23 +0000
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-06 20:03 +0000
        Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-09-06 17:26 -0600
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-06 16:20 +0100
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-06 11:14 -0700
        Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-07 05:27 +0000
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-07 08:32 +0000
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-07 11:01 +0100
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-07 10:28 -0700
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 13:50 -0400
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-06 22:48 +0000
        Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-07 10:58 +0100
  Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-07 17:47 +0100
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-07 18:02 +0100
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-07 20:57 +0000
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 13:44 -0400
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 00:05 +0100
        Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 19:40 -0400
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 01:33 +0100
            Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 22:39 -0400
              Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-08 11:01 +0000
              Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 14:42 +0100
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 10:28 -0400
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-08 08:44 -0700
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 16:48 +0100
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 12:12 -0400
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 17:33 +0100
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 13:47 -0400
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 19:49 +0100
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 15:35 -0400
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-09-08 20:01 -0300
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 20:16 -0400
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-09-09 03:50 -0300
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-09 17:20 +0000
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-09-10 03:29 -0300
            Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-09-08 09:20 -0600
              Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-08 15:39 +0000
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-09-08 12:01 -0600
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2020-09-09 17:59 +0300
              Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 11:54 -0400
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 17:18 +0100
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-08 19:44 +0100
          Re: ZFS, Where did Microsoft go wrong? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-08 01:27 +0000
            Re: ZFS, Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 22:54 -0400
              Re: ZFS, Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-08 08:44 -0700
                Re: ZFS, Where did Microsoft go wrong? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-08 16:01 +0000
                Re: ZFS, Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-08 09:33 -0700
            Re: ZFS, Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-08 08:44 -0700
              Re: ZFS, Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 17:00 +0100
                Re: ZFS, Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-08 09:33 -0700
                Re: ZFS, -> The Great Rootshow Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 13:41 -0400
                Re: ZFS, -> The Great Rootshow Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 19:37 +0100
                Re: ZFS, -> The Great Rootshow Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 15:31 -0400
                Re: ZFS, -> The Great Rootshow Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 22:54 +0100
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 18:09 -0400
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 23:18 +0100
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 20:10 -0400
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-09 09:41 +0000
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-09 08:34 -0400
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-09 12:43 +0000
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-09 13:29 +0100
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-09 08:44 -0400
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-09 18:31 +0000
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-09 15:49 -0400
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-09 20:41 +0000
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-09 17:32 -0400
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-10 05:17 +0000
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-10 12:15 +0100
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-10 11:51 +0000
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-10 14:40 +0100
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-10 17:39 +0100
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-10 18:03 +0100
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-10 15:45 +0000
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-10 12:02 -0400
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-10 17:35 +0100
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-09 21:05 +0100
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-09 16:55 -0700
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-10 15:48 +0000
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-08 15:38 +0000
  Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-08 02:29 +0000
  Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 17:53 +0100
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 17:43 -0400
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 23:00 +0100
  Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-02 07:10 -0700
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-02 16:32 +0100
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-03 04:10 -0700
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 01:01 -0700
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-07-08 11:36 +0100
        Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-07-08 16:01 -0400
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-08 15:01 -0700
            Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-07-08 22:45 +0000
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 19:30 -0400
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-07-08 21:02 -0500
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2021-07-08 12:09 +0000
        Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-07-08 13:44 +0100
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2021-07-08 12:49 +0000
            Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-07-08 13:53 +0100
              Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-07-08 14:17 +0100
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-07-08 22:00 +0100
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-07-08 13:56 +0000
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Daniel Jendinger <hexabit@daniels-mac-mini2.local> - 2021-09-06 18:56 +0000
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-06 17:27 -0400
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-06 22:30 +0100
  Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-02 09:29 -0700

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