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Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong?

From Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong?
Date 2020-09-08 00:05 +0100
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <rj6ebt$hoj$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References <rj0qk3$c7f$1@dont-email.me> <rj5o7h$vu5$1@gioia.aioe.org> <rj5ria$bag$1@dont-email.me>

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On 09/07/20 18:44, Dan Espen wrote:
> Chris<xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk>  writes:
>
>> On 09/05/20 20:57, gareth evans wrote:
>>> With MS-DOS and early versions of Windows, Microsoft
>>> provided products to help you control your computer, but
>>> with W10 they are trying to control the way you use the
>>> computer.
>>>
>>> W10 is increasingly pissing me off and the next PC
>>> I buy will be LINUX based.
>>>
>>> So, just before my 35th year of being a Microsoft
>>> customer and user, they have finally succeeded in
>>> driving me away.
>>
>> Have a look at FreeBSD. Less bloated than Linux, no
>> systemd, installs in less than an hour and is rock
>> solid. The only downside is that you have to install
>> the gui of choice, but they are all available as
>> packages, taking 10 mins or so to install. Just about
>> all Linux packages are available as well.
>>
>> Still running 12 on X86 and 11 on Sparc, but 13 is
>> the current version, fwir...
>
> Oops, war starting.
>
> What does Google say:
>
>    Is FreeBSD better than Linux?
>    Both are stable and provide an efficient working environment. However,
>    the general consensus is that nearly all applications run faster on
>    Linux than FreeBSD, but FreeBSD's TCP/IP stack has way less latency
>    (faster response time) than Linux.Jun 27, 2018
>
> When someone tells you their OS is better because it doesn't have
> systemd, well, hate to say this, but they're uninformed.
>
> I'll take systemd over SysV init every day.
> BSDs init looks to me like more of the same.
>
> systemd took a total mess and transformed it into a logical well
> designed structure.  Basic system design principles will tell you
> this.  Systemd took a mess of inconsistent start up scripts and a nest
> of soft links and turned it into a very simple structure where ONE
> file describes each service to be managed.  It did all this and managed
> to:
>
> 1. Reduce boot time dramatically
> 2. Reduce shut down time the same way
> 3. Manage running services in case a device is plugged in or has a
> problem and needs to restart
> 4. Finally make the relationships between running services clear
>
>

Won't get involved in wars, as I do use both and both work, though
all Linux here is pre systemd, or devuan.
However, from a software engineering point of FreeBSD looks far
more lean in it's design and has other advantages, such as a native
zfs file system and yes, no systemd.

If you want an example of how to do a higher level system management,
look at Solaris, which kept most of the original log files and
locations, but introduced an xml layer above all that, which you
can bypass if you need to. How would you do that for log and config
files with systemd ?. Might help brain dead sysadmins, but opaque
if you need to do serious work under the hood. It's got it's fingers
into every part of the system and is totaly against any concept of
functional isolation, partioning and layered design.

As to the list, 1, 4 ?, who cares if boot and shutdown take a bit
longer, it's not a race, 3) Solaris and FreeBSD both both have had
service management utilities for years. 4) That's if the sysadmin
has the internal knowledge, but that's true for both os's.

\rant :-)...

Chris


I view Linux as a wondoze substitute these day, but ymmv...
management utilities
.

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Thread

Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-05 20:57 +0100
  Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-05 20:40 +0000
  Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-05 22:44 +0100
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-08 21:10 +0000
  Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-09-05 22:50 +0000
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 19:35 -0400
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-06 07:12 +0100
        Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-02 09:36 -0700
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-02 19:05 +0100
            Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-07-02 21:44 +0100
              Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-02 22:16 +0100
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2021-07-03 00:57 +0000
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-07-02 23:05 -0500
              Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Fred Weigel <fridtjof.martin.weigel@gmail.com> - 2021-07-02 16:03 -0700
              Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-07-03 17:35 +0000
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-07-04 08:35 +0100
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-02 11:28 -0700
            Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-02 23:28 +0000
              Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-03 10:21 +0100
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-03 22:16 +0000
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-07-03 21:07 -0400
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-03 18:40 -0700
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-06 04:36 -0700
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-07-06 17:42 +0100
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-06 16:52 +0000
            Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-06 04:34 -0700
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-05 17:59 -0700
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 22:07 -0400
        Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-06 06:30 -0700
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-06 10:02 -0400
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> - 2020-09-06 17:47 +0300
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-09-06 08:12 +0000
        Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-09-11 08:22 +0000
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-06 16:23 +0100
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-06 16:19 +0100
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-06 22:51 +0000
  Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-09-05 17:01 -0600
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-06 08:23 +0000
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-06 20:03 +0000
        Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-09-06 17:26 -0600
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-06 16:20 +0100
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-06 11:14 -0700
        Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-07 05:27 +0000
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-07 08:32 +0000
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-07 11:01 +0100
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-07 10:28 -0700
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 13:50 -0400
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-06 22:48 +0000
        Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-07 10:58 +0100
  Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-07 17:47 +0100
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-07 18:02 +0100
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-07 20:57 +0000
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 13:44 -0400
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 00:05 +0100
        Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 19:40 -0400
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 01:33 +0100
            Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 22:39 -0400
              Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-08 11:01 +0000
              Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 14:42 +0100
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 10:28 -0400
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-08 08:44 -0700
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 16:48 +0100
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 12:12 -0400
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 17:33 +0100
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 13:47 -0400
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 19:49 +0100
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 15:35 -0400
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-09-08 20:01 -0300
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 20:16 -0400
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-09-09 03:50 -0300
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-09 17:20 +0000
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-09-10 03:29 -0300
            Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-09-08 09:20 -0600
              Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-08 15:39 +0000
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-09-08 12:01 -0600
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2020-09-09 17:59 +0300
              Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 11:54 -0400
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 17:18 +0100
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-08 19:44 +0100
          Re: ZFS, Where did Microsoft go wrong? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-08 01:27 +0000
            Re: ZFS, Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 22:54 -0400
              Re: ZFS, Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-08 08:44 -0700
                Re: ZFS, Where did Microsoft go wrong? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-08 16:01 +0000
                Re: ZFS, Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-08 09:33 -0700
            Re: ZFS, Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-08 08:44 -0700
              Re: ZFS, Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 17:00 +0100
                Re: ZFS, Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-08 09:33 -0700
                Re: ZFS, -> The Great Rootshow Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 13:41 -0400
                Re: ZFS, -> The Great Rootshow Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 19:37 +0100
                Re: ZFS, -> The Great Rootshow Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 15:31 -0400
                Re: ZFS, -> The Great Rootshow Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 22:54 +0100
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 18:09 -0400
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 23:18 +0100
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 20:10 -0400
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-09 09:41 +0000
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-09 08:34 -0400
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-09 12:43 +0000
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-09 13:29 +0100
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-09 08:44 -0400
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-09 18:31 +0000
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-09 15:49 -0400
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-09 20:41 +0000
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-09 17:32 -0400
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-10 05:17 +0000
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-10 12:15 +0100
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-10 11:51 +0000
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-10 14:40 +0100
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-10 17:39 +0100
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-10 18:03 +0100
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-10 15:45 +0000
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-10 12:02 -0400
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-10 17:35 +0100
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-09 21:05 +0100
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-09 16:55 -0700
                Re: ZFS, -> WARNING back top systemd scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-10 15:48 +0000
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-08 15:38 +0000
  Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-08 02:29 +0000
  Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 17:53 +0100
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 17:43 -0400
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-08 23:00 +0100
  Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-02 07:10 -0700
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-02 16:32 +0100
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-03 04:10 -0700
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 01:01 -0700
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-07-08 11:36 +0100
        Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-07-08 16:01 -0400
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-08 15:01 -0700
            Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-07-08 22:45 +0000
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 19:30 -0400
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-07-08 21:02 -0500
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2021-07-08 12:09 +0000
        Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-07-08 13:44 +0100
          Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2021-07-08 12:49 +0000
            Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-07-08 13:53 +0100
              Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-07-08 14:17 +0100
                Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-07-08 22:00 +0100
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-07-08 13:56 +0000
    Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Daniel Jendinger <hexabit@daniels-mac-mini2.local> - 2021-09-06 18:56 +0000
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-06 17:27 -0400
      Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-06 22:30 +0100
  Re: Where did Microsoft go wrong? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-02 09:29 -0700

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