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Groups > comp.arch.embedded > #29733

Re: Page sizes

From Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.arch.embedded
Subject Re: Page sizes
Date 2020-06-27 16:36 -0700
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <rd8l7e$864$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <rd6iuc$fkg$1@dont-email.me> <0mefffpilr3unrt19naquhucp21o0pqcua@4ax.com> <rd8g50$e2j$1@dont-email.me> <g8hfff557tjmacl1d57nc709c2spuo0bbv@4ax.com>

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On 6/27/2020 3:35 PM, George Neuner wrote:
> But you asked about "pages" here, which invariably are fixed sized
> entities.  Arbitrarily sized "segments" are a different subject.

Yes -- but you note that some "modern" CPUs now allow multiple (fixed)
page sizes to coexist in the same address space.  So, it's a matter
of degrees...

> If you want a *useful* segmenting MMU, you probably need to design it
> yourself.  Historically there were some units that did it (what I
> would call) right, but none are scalable to modern memory sizes.
> 
> Whatever you do, you want the program to work with flat addresses and
> have segmentation applied transparently (like paging) during memory
> access.  You certainly DO NOT want to follow the x86 example of
> exposing segments in the addressing.

Agreed.  Segments were meant to address a different problem.

OTOH, exposing them to the instruction set removes any potential
ambiguity if two (or more) "general purpose" segments could
overlap at a particular spot in the address space; the opcode
acts as a disambiguator.

The PMMU approach sidesteps this issue by rigidly defining where
(in the physical and virtual address spaces) a new page CAN begin.
It's bank-switching-on-steroids...

[IIRC, I had previously concluded that variable sizes were impractical
for reasons like this]

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Thread

Page sizes Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-06-26 21:45 -0700
  Re: Page sizes Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2020-06-27 08:33 +0200
    Re: Page sizes Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-06-27 00:32 -0700
      Re: Page sizes Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2020-06-27 12:21 +0200
        Re: Page sizes Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-06-27 15:12 -0700
        Re: Page sizes George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2020-06-27 18:14 -0400
      Re: Page sizes David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-27 17:21 +0200
        Re: Page sizes Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2020-06-28 15:30 +1000
      Re: Page sizes George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2020-06-27 18:02 -0400
  Re: Page sizes upsidedown@downunder.com - 2020-06-27 11:11 +0300
  Re: Page sizes John Speth <johnspeth@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-27 07:59 -0700
  Re: Page sizes George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2020-06-27 17:37 -0400
    Re: Page sizes Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-06-27 15:10 -0700
      Re: Page sizes George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2020-06-27 18:35 -0400
        Re: Page sizes Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-06-27 16:36 -0700
          Re: Page sizes George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2020-06-28 01:01 -0400
            Re: Page sizes Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-06-27 23:50 -0700
              Re: Page sizes upsidedown@downunder.com - 2020-06-28 13:27 +0300
                Re: Page sizes Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-06-28 11:49 -0700
              Re: Page sizes George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2020-06-30 00:05 -0400
                Re: Page sizes Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-06-29 23:24 -0700
                Re: Page sizes upsidedown@downunder.com - 2020-06-30 11:00 +0300
                Re: Page sizes Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-06-30 12:23 -0700
                Re: Page sizes upsidedown@downunder.com - 2020-07-01 13:31 +0300
                Re: Page sizes Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2020-07-01 19:44 +0300
                Re: Page sizes George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2020-06-30 05:45 -0400
                Re: Page sizes Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-06-30 04:13 -0700
                Re: Page sizes George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2020-06-30 12:49 -0400
                Re: Page sizes Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-06-30 12:44 -0700
                Re: Page sizes George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2020-07-02 03:14 -0400
        Re: Page sizes upsidedown@downunder.com - 2020-06-28 09:24 +0300
          Re: Page sizes Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-06-28 00:11 -0700
            Re: Page sizes upsidedown@downunder.com - 2020-06-28 15:59 +0300
              Re: Page sizes Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-06-28 12:04 -0700
                Re: Page sizes upsidedown@downunder.com - 2020-06-30 06:43 +0300
                Re: Page sizes Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-06-29 23:47 -0700
          Re: Page sizes Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-06-28 01:18 -0700
            Re: Page sizes upsidedown@downunder.com - 2020-06-28 16:29 +0300
              Re: Page sizes Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-06-28 12:18 -0700
  Re: Page sizes Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-06-27 18:27 -0400
  Re: Page sizes Andrew Smallshaw <andrews@sdf.org> - 2020-07-04 06:11 +0000

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