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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #211670

Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF?

From David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF?
Date 2020-05-31 09:30 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <ravpve$ja5$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (1 earlier) <raeedf$7dm$1@gal.iecc.com> <365b2c24-3b9f-4eba-9c67-d31688bdfe5c@googlegroups.com> <ragp4c222lo@news3.newsguy.com> <ragrus$30jf$2@gal.iecc.com> <rautav$b9f$1@z-news.wcss.wroc.pl>

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On 31/05/2020 01:21, antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl wrote:
> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>
>> I suppose that hypothetically someone could have built a TTY channel
>> interface that interrupted on every character but I would be surprised
>> if anyone did. More likely they'd sell you an 1130 or later a Sys/7 to
>> be an overpriced front end processor.
> 

You can't use an IBM1130 as a terminal concentrator. It doesn't have 
terminal lines. IBM of course wanted you to use 3270 VDU's where 
character editing was done in a local terminal controller.
If you can offload some processing to a less expensive front end box 
rather than buy Mainframe MIPS thats a win...


> Around 1992 I was using Internet connection (email) that did it.
> Connection was from a PC via modem to IBM mainframe.  AFAIU doing
> it "proper" way would be complicated/expensive, do guys operating
> mainframe hacked hardware to take interrupt on each incoming
> character.  They said that "IBM does not like interrupts", but
> this was for single 9600 bps line, so mainframe could handle
> interrupts without serious degradation of response.
> 

Are you sure it really passed each character over the channel, could you 
run EMACS? Its not really the interupts that slow down mainframes its 
the VTAM layers in between.

No computer likes interrupts. I remember a friend who worked for a big 
UK bank was keen to roll out "all-in-one" to all bank staff, but he said 
it needed so many VAXs compared PROFS on the IBM he couldn't cost 
justify it.

I believe senior managers up got all-in-one the rest got PROFS.


> Doing this on multiple lines probably would overload mainframe
> with interrput processing.  This mainframe probably had about 20
> discs and 100 block mode terminals and my guesstimate is that
> the single character mode line generated comparable number
> of interrupts to all other periferials taken together...
> 

Well the VAX suffers the same. Lets see:-

1. User Types Character
2. VAX receives character.
3. VMS looks and sees its for a running application which is swapped.
4. It pages in the interupt handler.
5. It passes the character to application
6. The program looks at the character. Sees its a letter "F"
7. The program decides it needs to echo the character so asks the OS to 
send a "P" to the terminal
8. The program goes to sleep
9. VMS pages it out to make room for another program that needs to 
process a leetter "U" .....

So on a heavily loaded system thats two disk IO's for each character 
typed. I am sure there must be a better way....

Dave

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Thread

CR or LF? Gareth Evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-12 11:59 +0100
  Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-04-12 20:35 +0000
    Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-04-12 16:52 -0400
      Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-04-13 22:16 +0000
    Re: CR or LF? Gareth Evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-12 22:48 +0100
    Re: CR or LF? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-04-12 19:44 -0300
    Re: CR or LF? Douglas Miller <durgadas311@gmail.com> - 2020-04-12 16:38 -0700
      Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-04-13 19:03 +0000
        Re: CR or LF? Douglas Miller <durgadas311@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 14:12 -0700
          Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-04-13 22:30 +0000
            Re: CR or LF? Douglas Miller <durgadas311@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 16:00 -0700
        Re: CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-04-13 21:22 +0000
          Re: CR or LF? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-04-14 09:40 +0000
        Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-04-13 17:56 -0700
    Re: CR or LF? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-04-13 03:32 +0000
    Re: CR or LF? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-04-14 05:26 +0200
  Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-04-12 22:11 -0700
    Re: CR or LF? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-04-13 17:15 +0000
    Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-13 16:40 -0700
      Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-13 17:29 -0700
        Re: CR or LF? Douglas Miller <durgadas311@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 18:18 -0700
          Re: CR or LF? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-04-16 13:40 +0000
            Re: CR or LF? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-04-17 11:00 +0000
              Re: CR or LF? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-04-18 09:56 +0000
        Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 21:37 -0400
          Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-04-14 14:51 -0700
        Re: CR or LF? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-04-14 07:45 +0000
          Re: CR or LF? Gareth Evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-14 11:38 +0100
            Re: CR or LF? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-04-14 15:28 +0200
            Re: CR or LF? nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2020-04-14 15:27 +0000
              Re: CR or LF? Gareth Evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-14 17:37 +0100
                Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-04-14 15:00 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? fred_weigel@hotmail.com - 2020-05-22 17:09 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-05-23 03:37 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-05-23 08:36 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-05-23 05:38 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-05-23 08:58 -0400
                Re: base64, not really CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-05-23 18:42 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-05-23 19:28 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-05-23 20:27 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-05-23 14:30 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@invalid.org> - 2020-05-24 10:21 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-05-24 06:06 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-05-24 10:45 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-05-24 07:03 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-05-24 10:43 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2020-06-05 22:22 +0100
            Re: CR or LF? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-04-14 17:49 -0300
          Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-14 06:29 -0700
            Re: CR or LF? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-04-18 08:42 +0100
              Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-18 11:33 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-04-18 19:11 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-04-18 18:32 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-04-19 01:55 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-04-18 20:03 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-04-18 22:44 +0100
                Re: CR or LF? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-04-19 08:46 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-04-19 10:58 +0100
                Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-04-18 22:22 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-04-18 18:55 -0400
                re: CRLF Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-18 18:03 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-04-19 08:55 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-04-19 08:16 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-04-19 09:19 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-04-19 10:24 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-19 10:47 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-04-20 16:02 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2020-05-05 16:32 +0100
                Re: CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-04-19 14:54 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-04-19 12:19 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-19 10:47 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-04-19 09:26 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2020-04-20 17:40 +0800
                Re: CR or LF? Fred Smith <fred@thejanitor.corp> - 2020-04-20 23:05 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-04-21 06:07 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-04-22 15:08 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-04-22 20:22 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-04-22 19:40 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-04-22 23:23 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-04-23 03:01 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-19 10:47 -0700
    Re: CR or LF? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-04-13 19:54 +0100
    Re: CR or LF? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-22 11:18 -0700
  Re: CR or LF? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-04-14 05:24 +0200
    Re: CR or LF? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-04-18 08:44 +0100
      Re: CR or LF? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-04-18 12:08 +0200
        Re: CR or LF? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-04-18 12:02 +0100
          Re: CR or LF? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-04-18 21:50 +0200
  Re: CR or LF? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-04-18 03:40 +0000
    Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-05-23 03:40 -0700
      Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-05-23 08:38 -0400
        Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-05-23 08:02 -0700
          Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-05-23 11:07 -0400
            Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-05-23 11:27 -0700
            Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-05-23 12:27 -0700
              Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-05-23 18:21 -0400
          Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-05-23 20:10 +0000
            Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-05-24 08:32 -0700
              Re: CR or LF? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-05-24 16:25 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-05-24 18:29 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-05-25 02:00 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-05-25 16:28 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-05-26 14:06 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-05-26 15:14 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-05-25 10:55 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-05-25 15:04 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-05-24 21:32 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-05-25 15:44 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-05-25 16:32 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-05-26 00:39 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-05-31 00:21 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-05-30 21:59 -0400
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2020-05-31 09:30 +0100
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-05-31 15:48 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-05-31 13:49 -0700
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-06-01 16:28 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-06-01 18:48 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-06-01 16:27 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-06-02 19:12 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-06-02 20:28 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2020-06-03 09:13 +0100
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Fred Smith <fred@thejanitor.corp> - 2020-06-03 08:33 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-06-03 16:20 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-06-03 18:25 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-06-03 17:20 -0400
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-06-04 15:20 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-06-04 19:51 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-04 16:26 -0700
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-06-05 18:46 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-06-05 12:26 -0700
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-05 13:28 -0700
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2020-06-08 01:03 +0000
                Re: PDP-11s, was mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-06-06 00:08 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-06-04 17:41 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-04 16:26 -0700
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-06-04 17:04 -0700
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-06-04 15:18 +0000
                Re: memory sizes, mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-06-04 20:53 +0000
                Re: memory sizes, mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-06-04 22:22 +0000
                Re: memory sizes, mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-04 19:27 -0400
                Re: memory sizes, mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-06-05 16:10 +0000
                Re: memory sizes, mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-05 10:03 -0700
                Re: memory sizes, mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-06-05 20:29 +0000
                Re: memory sizes, mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-06-05 18:47 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-04 16:26 -0700
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-06-01 16:32 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-05-25 10:55 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2020-05-25 15:04 -1000
                Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-05-26 12:56 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-05-26 14:15 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-05-25 21:41 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-05-28 11:50 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-05-28 11:56 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-05-30 14:49 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-05-30 17:39 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-05-30 19:07 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-05-30 19:32 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-05-30 13:10 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-05-30 20:43 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-05-30 15:50 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-05-30 16:30 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-05-30 19:42 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-05-30 22:17 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-05-31 09:45 +0100
            Re: CR or LF? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-05-25 18:37 +0000
              Re: CR or LF? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-05-25 19:52 +0000
      Re: CR or LF? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-05-25 07:37 +0000
  Re: CR or LF? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-22 11:15 -0700
    Re: CR or LF? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-22 18:55 -0700

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