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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #211575

Re: CR or LF?

From Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: CR or LF?
Date 2020-05-24 16:25 +0000
Organization NewsGuy.com
Message-ID <rae75t019dh@news2.newsguy.com> (permalink)
References (1 earlier) <c40f7000-bdbb-42c9-bc02-5997f90cf388@googlegroups.com> <576icf94md9shna5jsfc8up63rdkb9paro@4ax.com> <e219bf14-abd0-4787-8cdb-09909f618d6e@googlegroups.com> <rabvvu$dsc$1@gal.iecc.com> <85f8db34-31c4-4e84-ac08-318f3d04364c@googlegroups.com>

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On 2020-05-24, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> And what I'm used to is the Michigan Terminal System.
>
> Text files are normally line files.
>
> The format of a line file is:
>
> An ISAM file with two fields.
>
> One field is a 32-bit integer. That field is the primary key, and it is the
> line number. It is in units of 0.001, so a file with lines numbered 1, 2, 3,
> and 4 would have the integer values 1000, 2000, 3000 and 4000 in this field.
> (This facilitates line insertion in text editors.)
>
> The other field is a variable-length text field. This contains the line of
> text itself. It may be from 0 to 255 characters in length. (This was changed
> to 0 to 32,767 in a later version of the operating system.)
>
> The text field could contain *any* data, including binary data. The
> characters in it were only data and didn't delimit records - that was
> done out of band.  One text field = one record. So mixing binary data and
> text was no problem.
>
> This worked so well and was so easy to use and understand that I'm shocked
> that today's microcomputers instead expose the user to messiness that can
> lead to buffer overflow problems and the like.

It's a matter of parallel evolution.  File systems like your MTS example
("Bright college days, oh, carefree days that fly..."  -- Tom Lehrer)
were born on mainframe systems that had lots of buffering capability and
processing power.  ASCII text files were born on Teletype networks which
had very little processing capability and even less buffering.  Given the
constraints of the time, I'd say that each system served its purposes well.
ASCII text files are so much simpler that their limitations are often not
a serious factor - e.g., when transmitting text.

That DLE character mentioned upthread stands for "Data Link Escape",
and it shows that the designers of those Teletype networks were
thinking about the problem.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  Apple is a cult.
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  Linux is anarchy.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  Pick your poison.

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Thread

CR or LF? Gareth Evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-12 11:59 +0100
  Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-04-12 20:35 +0000
    Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-04-12 16:52 -0400
      Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-04-13 22:16 +0000
    Re: CR or LF? Gareth Evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-12 22:48 +0100
    Re: CR or LF? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-04-12 19:44 -0300
    Re: CR or LF? Douglas Miller <durgadas311@gmail.com> - 2020-04-12 16:38 -0700
      Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-04-13 19:03 +0000
        Re: CR or LF? Douglas Miller <durgadas311@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 14:12 -0700
          Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-04-13 22:30 +0000
            Re: CR or LF? Douglas Miller <durgadas311@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 16:00 -0700
        Re: CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-04-13 21:22 +0000
          Re: CR or LF? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-04-14 09:40 +0000
        Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-04-13 17:56 -0700
    Re: CR or LF? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-04-13 03:32 +0000
    Re: CR or LF? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-04-14 05:26 +0200
  Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-04-12 22:11 -0700
    Re: CR or LF? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-04-13 17:15 +0000
    Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-13 16:40 -0700
      Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-13 17:29 -0700
        Re: CR or LF? Douglas Miller <durgadas311@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 18:18 -0700
          Re: CR or LF? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-04-16 13:40 +0000
            Re: CR or LF? maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-04-17 11:00 +0000
              Re: CR or LF? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-04-18 09:56 +0000
        Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 21:37 -0400
          Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-04-14 14:51 -0700
        Re: CR or LF? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-04-14 07:45 +0000
          Re: CR or LF? Gareth Evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-14 11:38 +0100
            Re: CR or LF? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-04-14 15:28 +0200
            Re: CR or LF? nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2020-04-14 15:27 +0000
              Re: CR or LF? Gareth Evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-14 17:37 +0100
                Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-04-14 15:00 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? fred_weigel@hotmail.com - 2020-05-22 17:09 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-05-23 03:37 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-05-23 08:36 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-05-23 05:38 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-05-23 08:58 -0400
                Re: base64, not really CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-05-23 18:42 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-05-23 19:28 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-05-23 20:27 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-05-23 14:30 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@invalid.org> - 2020-05-24 10:21 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-05-24 06:06 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-05-24 10:45 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-05-24 07:03 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-05-24 10:43 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2020-06-05 22:22 +0100
            Re: CR or LF? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-04-14 17:49 -0300
          Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-14 06:29 -0700
            Re: CR or LF? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-04-18 08:42 +0100
              Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-18 11:33 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-04-18 19:11 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-04-18 18:32 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-04-19 01:55 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-04-18 20:03 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-04-18 22:44 +0100
                Re: CR or LF? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-04-19 08:46 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-04-19 10:58 +0100
                Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-04-18 22:22 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-04-18 18:55 -0400
                re: CRLF Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-18 18:03 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-04-19 08:55 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-04-19 08:16 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-04-19 09:19 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-04-19 10:24 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-19 10:47 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-04-20 16:02 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2020-05-05 16:32 +0100
                Re: CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-04-19 14:54 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-04-19 12:19 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-19 10:47 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-04-19 09:26 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2020-04-20 17:40 +0800
                Re: CR or LF? Fred Smith <fred@thejanitor.corp> - 2020-04-20 23:05 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-04-21 06:07 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-04-22 15:08 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-04-22 20:22 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-04-22 19:40 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-04-22 23:23 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-04-23 03:01 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-04-19 10:47 -0700
    Re: CR or LF? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-04-13 19:54 +0100
    Re: CR or LF? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-22 11:18 -0700
  Re: CR or LF? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-04-14 05:24 +0200
    Re: CR or LF? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-04-18 08:44 +0100
      Re: CR or LF? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-04-18 12:08 +0200
        Re: CR or LF? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-04-18 12:02 +0100
          Re: CR or LF? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-04-18 21:50 +0200
  Re: CR or LF? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-04-18 03:40 +0000
    Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-05-23 03:40 -0700
      Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-05-23 08:38 -0400
        Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-05-23 08:02 -0700
          Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-05-23 11:07 -0400
            Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-05-23 11:27 -0700
            Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-05-23 12:27 -0700
              Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-05-23 18:21 -0400
          Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-05-23 20:10 +0000
            Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-05-24 08:32 -0700
              Re: CR or LF? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-05-24 16:25 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-05-24 18:29 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-05-25 02:00 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-05-25 16:28 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-05-26 14:06 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-05-26 15:14 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-05-25 10:55 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-05-25 15:04 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-05-24 21:32 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-05-25 15:44 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-05-25 16:32 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-05-26 00:39 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-05-31 00:21 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-05-30 21:59 -0400
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2020-05-31 09:30 +0100
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-05-31 15:48 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-05-31 13:49 -0700
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-06-01 16:28 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-06-01 18:48 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-06-01 16:27 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-06-02 19:12 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-06-02 20:28 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2020-06-03 09:13 +0100
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Fred Smith <fred@thejanitor.corp> - 2020-06-03 08:33 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-06-03 16:20 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-06-03 18:25 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-06-03 17:20 -0400
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-06-04 15:20 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-06-04 19:51 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-04 16:26 -0700
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-06-05 18:46 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-06-05 12:26 -0700
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-05 13:28 -0700
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2020-06-08 01:03 +0000
                Re: PDP-11s, was mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-06-06 00:08 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-06-04 17:41 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-04 16:26 -0700
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-06-04 17:04 -0700
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-06-04 15:18 +0000
                Re: memory sizes, mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-06-04 20:53 +0000
                Re: memory sizes, mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-06-04 22:22 +0000
                Re: memory sizes, mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-04 19:27 -0400
                Re: memory sizes, mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-06-05 16:10 +0000
                Re: memory sizes, mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-05 10:03 -0700
                Re: memory sizes, mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-06-05 20:29 +0000
                Re: memory sizes, mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-06-05 18:47 +0000
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-04 16:26 -0700
                Re: mainframe I/O, was CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-06-01 16:32 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-05-25 10:55 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2020-05-25 15:04 -1000
                Re: CR or LF? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-05-26 12:56 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-05-26 14:15 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-05-25 21:41 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-05-28 11:50 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-05-28 11:56 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-05-30 14:49 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-05-30 17:39 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-05-30 19:07 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-05-30 19:32 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-05-30 13:10 -0700
                Re: CR or LF? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-05-30 20:43 +0000
                Re: CR or LF? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-05-30 15:50 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-05-30 16:30 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-05-30 19:42 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-05-30 22:17 -0400
                Re: CR or LF? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-05-31 09:45 +0100
            Re: CR or LF? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-05-25 18:37 +0000
              Re: CR or LF? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-05-25 19:52 +0000
      Re: CR or LF? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-05-25 07:37 +0000
  Re: CR or LF? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-22 11:15 -0700
    Re: CR or LF? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-22 18:55 -0700

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