Re: two's complement idea

From	David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c++
Subject	Re: two's complement idea
Date	2020-01-25 00:05 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<r0ft7j$gun$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <r09bhj$1cbg$1@gioia.aioe.org> <r0a6k9$569$1@dont-email.me> <KqrWF.100712$UPz1.15399@fx15.am4> <h8vqe4Fiqq9U1@mid.individual.net> <4hBWF.107660$LY2.60603@fx23.am4>

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On 24/01/2020 13:19, Bart wrote:
> On 24/01/2020 09:07, Bo Persson wrote:
>> On 2020-01-24 at 02:06, Bart wrote:
>>> On 22/01/2020 19:04, Christian Gollwitzer wrote:
> 
>>>> What good reasons are left for a literal goto? I can see it in C for 
>>>> error handling (because it lacks exceptions) - in C++ there is 
>>>> hardly a good reason IMHO.
> 
>>> Even with this, I think my incidence of using goto is once per 400 
>>> lines or so, so 'spaghetti code' is unlikely.
>>>
>>
>> I find that an extremely high use of goto. Would rather expect once in 
>> a million lines, or so.
> 
> IIRC 'goto' in the Linux kernel code was more like once in 200 lines.
> 
> Some CPython sources I've just tested (all .c files, not .h, in the ./py 
> directory combined into one 44Kloc file) use "goto " once per 230 lines.
> 
> On Tiny C sources (again only .c files in main folder), it's once per 95 
> lines.
> 
> On Lua sources however, it's once per 430 lines. (Neither Lua nor Python 
>   projects have 'goto' in the languages they implement.)
> 
> Your once in a million lines sounds extreme. None of my projects are 
> anywhere near that size. goto is inelegant but if it's the simplest way 
> to code something, then I will use it.

I can only ever remember /once/ using "goto" in C code (and that was 
only for a while - it got removed after a refactoring).  I don't know 
how many lines I have written over the years, in all my work - I don't 
think it would be a million lines, but it is a great deal.  Different 
people code in different ways and have different requirements.

I suspect you'll find "goto" occurring most in either badly written and 
badly structured code (we all know this kind of code exists, but lets 
ignore it for now), for generated code (again, we'll ignore that), or 
code where there is a strong emphasis on good performance even in the 
face of poor compilers (or no optimisation enabled) and older C 
standards.  For this kind of thing, there are going to be more 
situations where "goto" (or other unstructured code practices, like 
non-trivial switch case fall-throughs) can be a definite help in getting 
efficient results.

When you have better tools (or don't care about performance), there are 
many more options available.  You can re-factor code into smaller 
functions, and leave nested loops with a "return" - in the knowledge 
that the compiler will inline these single-use static functions and give 
you just as efficient results.  You can add extra booleans for flags and 
put them in the conditionals for the loops - knowing the compiler will 
turn them into goto's.  You can duplicate code (not often a great idea, 
but sometimes the neatest and clearest solution), knowing the compiler 
will merge duplicate code sections without manual goto's or switch case 
fall-throughs.

I am all in favour of using a coding technique if I think it is the 
simplest, clearest, and most maintainable option.  The reason I don't 
use goto's myself is that I have never found it to be the best choice 
for my code - not because of a particular allergy against it.

> 
> (On my own biggest project its once per 500 lines. This in a language 
> that allows nested loop breaks.)

Thread

Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-28 12:19 -0800
  Re: two's complement idea "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-11-29 00:14 +0100
    Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-29 09:15 +0100
      Re: two's complement idea Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2019-11-29 10:58 +0100
        Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-29 12:49 +0100
    Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-12-07 07:53 -0800
      Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-07 08:22 -0800
        Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-10 20:44 -0800
          Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-10 23:44 -0800
            Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-14 07:08 -0800
              Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-14 08:42 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-21 02:09 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-21 05:14 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2020-01-21 13:08 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-22 00:07 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-21 23:21 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-01-22 01:51 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-22 11:28 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-01-22 11:52 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-22 04:47 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-02 07:19 -0700
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-02 08:07 -0700
                Re: two's complement idea boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-21 16:44 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-21 20:01 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-22 11:26 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2020-01-22 20:04 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-01-22 11:30 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2020-01-22 19:57 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-23 10:03 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-23 09:24 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-24 07:29 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-23 10:03 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> - 2020-01-23 10:09 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-23 09:29 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-24 01:08 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-24 12:27 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-24 01:06 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2020-01-24 10:07 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-24 11:36 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-24 17:34 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-24 17:57 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-24 12:19 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2020-01-24 14:19 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-24 14:11 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-24 17:26 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-24 17:35 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-24 22:27 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-24 23:21 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-25 11:06 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-24 22:12 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-24 23:24 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-25 09:04 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-25 04:15 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-25 19:55 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-25 00:05 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 01:19 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-25 19:50 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 11:57 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2020-01-25 13:42 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 14:58 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-26 07:58 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-25 20:34 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-25 12:41 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-26 16:08 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-27 02:20 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-27 15:03 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-15 06:44 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-03-06 10:18 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-02 07:05 -0700
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-04-02 20:03 +0300
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-04 12:37 -0700
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-26 07:45 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 19:56 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-26 09:49 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 21:33 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-26 11:00 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 22:23 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-26 11:46 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-26 10:55 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-26 03:47 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-27 01:28 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-25 22:22 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-25 18:24 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-26 12:54 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-26 12:44 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-26 14:58 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-26 14:53 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-26 19:10 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-26 13:20 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-26 20:51 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-26 21:02 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-01-26 19:06 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-27 18:50 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-27 14:18 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-27 22:13 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-27 21:38 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-27 19:37 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-01-27 19:15 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> - 2020-01-28 11:45 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-27 16:31 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-01-26 18:50 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-26 18:57 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-26 20:46 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-26 13:14 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-26 22:15 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-27 21:06 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-28 13:08 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-27 01:50 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-27 08:21 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-25 20:14 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-25 20:12 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-27 07:48 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-02-18 18:46 +0100

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