Re: Adobe Flash

From	moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: Adobe Flash
Date	2015-11-20 07:50 +0100
Message-ID	<qwNG9-3Df-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	<qwcdB-4dg-55@gated-at.bofh.it> <qwgKe-7hK-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <qwAIW-3r7-11@gated-at.bofh.it> <qwHr3-87x-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	Debian Project

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On Fri, 20 Nov 2015 00:02:55 +0000, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday 19 November 2015 16:55:43 moxalt wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 19:34:38 +0000, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
> > wrote:  
> > > On Wednesday 18 November 2015 19:24:31 moxalt wrote:  
> > > > > The OP is currently watching the
> > > > > news on Doze.  Hardly more secure than flash  
> > > >
> > > > And OP should do neither.  
> > >
> > > That's a bit arrogant - saying that other people shouldn't watch the news
> > > on their computers because you would choose not to do so.
> > >
> > > Lisi  
> >
> > I don't think advocating that others should follow certain ethical
> > principles is at all arrogant. What you're accusing me of is telling others
> > to reject non-free software because I do so. This is not true. I think
> > people in general should not use proprietary software, and I comply by this
> > ethical principle. In what way is recommending that others should do the
> > same arrogant?  
> 
> Telling others what they "should" do is arrogant.

I disagree. Condemning anyone for ever telling anyone to do anything as
'arrogant' is plain silly. If I am to be called 'arrogant' for advocating
certain principles, so be it.

What word would you have me use so that others do not feel uncomfortable? What
would you have me do? Should (there it is again!) I simply deliver my opinions
in terms of imperatives- do this and do that? That seems far more arrogant to
me.

I find it somewhat peculiar that you would find the word 'should' so
triggering. I tell people that they should do things all the time, and others
tell me that I should do things all the time. I am not in any way offended by
this. If I agree, I will express my agreement and do the thing that they think
I should do. If I disagree, I will explain why and refuse.

>  Especially on this forum
> on occasions where people are only using the Debian repositories.

I don't understand this.

> It is admirable that you are prepared to make sacrifices for your
> principles. Telling others that they "should" make sacrifices for your
> principles is arrogant.  Persuade them by all means.  But if you are so dead
> set against all use of non-free or not-quite-fully-free software, use one of
> these: http://www.gnu.org/distros/

I was a Trisquel user for a long time. I still recommend Trisquel to those new
to the world of free software. Personally I prefer Debian. As long as non-free
and contrib are not enabled, Debian is just as free as any of those
distributions. However, as
https://www.gnu.org/distros/optionally-free-not-enough.html points out,
distributions which merely present a choice between freedom and subjugation are
not good enough for people who are not committed free software users and who
are not prepared to defend their freedom when the choice is offered.

This is why the distributions listed at
http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html should be recommended to the
general public.

> Contrib and non-free Debian repositories exist.  We are entitled to use them 
> in peace and without being given moral lectures and being carpeted like 
> naughty schoolboys.

This is true.

> And I use Linux.  You use GNU/Linux.  Again, bully for you.  That is a matter 
> of semantics.

I use both Linux and GNU/Linux. Linux is my kernel; GNU/Linux is my operating
system.

Once upon a time, I called the whole thing Linux too.

Thread

Re: Adobe Flash Alex Vong <alexvong1995@gmail.com> - 2015-11-18 15:50 +0100
  Re: Adobe Flash Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-18 16:10 +0100
    Re: Adobe Flash Siard <shiems146@kpnplanet.nl> - 2015-11-18 16:40 +0100
      Re: Adobe Flash Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2015-11-18 19:50 +0100
        Re: Adobe Flash Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-18 20:40 +0100
          Re: Adobe Flash Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2015-11-19 00:50 +0100
            Re: Adobe Flash Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 01:30 +0100
      Re: Adobe Flash Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 14:10 +0100
    Re: Adobe Flash moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-18 19:00 +0100
      Re: Adobe Flash Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-18 19:00 +0100
        Re: Adobe Flash moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-18 20:30 +0100
          Re: Adobe Flash Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-18 20:40 +0100
            Re: Adobe Flash moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-19 18:00 +0100
              Re: Adobe Flash Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 01:10 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2015-11-20 01:40 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-20 08:00 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-11-20 09:30 +0100
                Re: The word 'should'. (was: Adobe Flash) moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-21 05:50 +0100
                Re: The word 'should'. (was: Adobe Flash) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 10:00 +0100
                Re: The word 'should'. (was: Adobe Flash) Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-11-21 10:30 +0100
                Re: The word 'should'. (was: Adobe Flash) moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-21 13:40 +0100
                Re: The word 'should'. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-11-21 14:50 +0100
                Re: The word 'should'. Mauro Condarelli <mc5686@mclink.it> - 2015-11-21 15:00 +0100
                Re: The word 'should'. moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-21 18:20 +0100
                Re: The word 'should'. Mauro Condarelli <mc5686@mclink.it> - 2015-11-21 18:40 +0100
                Re: The word 'should'. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 23:50 +0100
                Re: The word 'should'. Mauro Condarelli <mc5686@mclink.it> - 2015-11-22 00:50 +0100
                Re: The word 'should'. moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-22 04:10 +0100
                Re: The word 'should'. Mario Castelán Castro  <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-11-22 05:20 +0100
                Re: The word 'should'. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 12:20 +0100
                Re: The word 'should'. Ben Stones <ben@b3ns.com> - 2015-11-22 13:00 +0100
                Re: The word 'should'. Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-11-23 00:10 +0100
                Re: The word 'should'. moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-23 18:50 +0100
                Re: Mauro Condarelli <mc5686@mclink.it> - 2015-11-22 18:00 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-11-20 09:30 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Mario Castelán Castro  <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-11-22 00:40 +0100
                Which repositories are permitted and which are not Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 01:20 +0100
                The word 'should' Mario Castelán Castro  <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-11-22 04:50 +0100
                Re: The word 'should' John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-11-22 05:00 +0100
                Re: The word 'should' Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 12:20 +0100
                Re: The word 'should' Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2015-11-22 17:50 +0100
                Re: The word 'should' Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 18:00 +0100
                Re: The word 'should' moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-22 20:00 +0100
                Re: The word 'should' Mario Castelán Castro  <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-11-22 23:40 +0100
                Re: The word 'should' Mario Castelán Castro  <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-11-22 23:40 +0100
                Re: The word 'should' Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-11-23 00:00 +0100
                Re: The word 'should' Mario Castelán Castro  <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-11-23 00:10 +0100
                Re: The word 'should' Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-11-23 00:40 +0100
                Re: The word 'should' Mario Castelán Castro  <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-11-23 00:40 +0100
                Re: The word 'should' Ben Stones <ben@b3ns.com> - 2015-11-23 01:30 +0100
                Re: The word 'should' Bob Holtzman <holtzm@cox.net> - 2015-11-22 21:30 +0100
              Re: Adobe Flash Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 01:10 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-20 07:50 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-11-20 09:30 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-21 05:10 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-11-21 05:30 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-21 05:50 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Glenn English <ghe@srv.slsware.net> - 2015-11-21 08:00 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-11-21 09:40 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 10:00 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-11-21 10:20 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-11-21 14:40 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-21 18:10 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 16:00 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 10:00 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-21 13:30 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-21 13:40 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-11-21 10:20 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-11-21 15:00 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 16:20 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-21 18:10 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 19:10 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-11-22 02:40 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 16:00 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-21 18:10 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-21 05:50 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2015-11-21 19:00 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 13:40 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-11-20 14:20 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-11-20 15:00 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-11-20 16:40 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-11-20 17:00 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 12:30 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2015-11-21 13:00 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-21 13:30 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2015-11-21 14:00 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 16:30 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-21 18:00 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 19:00 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-22 04:10 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2015-11-22 14:10 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 14:50 +0100
          Re: Adobe Flash Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 00:40 +0100
            Re: Adobe Flash Mario Castelán Castro  <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-11-22 01:00 +0100
              Re: Adobe Flash moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-22 04:00 +0100
              Re: Adobe Flash Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 16:10 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-22 19:50 +0100
                Re: Adobe Flash Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-11-23 00:10 +0100
                "operating system" Mario Castelán Castro  <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-11-23 02:50 +0100
                pointless linguistic one-upmanship (was Re: "operating system") Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2015-11-23 10:40 +0100
                Re: pointless linguistic one-upmanship (was Re: "operating system") Bob Holtzman <holtzm@cox.net> - 2015-11-23 20:30 +0100
                Re: pointless linguistic one-upmanship (was Re: "operating system") Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2015-11-24 11:30 +0100
                Re: pointless linguistic one-upmanship (was Re: "operating system") moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-24 15:50 +0100
    Re: Adobe Flash Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2015-11-18 19:40 +0100
      Re: Adobe Flash Tom Ashley <tomashleyjr@gmail.com> - 2015-11-18 22:10 +0100
        Re: Adobe Flash Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 00:30 +0100
        Re: Adobe Flash Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2015-11-19 01:00 +0100
          Re: Adobe Flash Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 01:30 +0100
          Re: Adobe Flash Tom Ashley <tomashleyjr@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 02:30 +0100
            Re: Adobe Flash Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2015-11-19 02:30 +0100

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