Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

From	moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?
Date	2015-11-02 17:40 +0100
Message-ID	<qqqjf-7AX-13@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	<qpC37-1N0-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <qpHcu-541-21@gated-at.bofh.it> <qpHma-57i-29@gated-at.bofh.it> <qpIUW-6bU-27@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	Debian Project

Show all headers | View raw

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 18:11:48 +0000, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday 31 October 2015 16:37:41 Richard Owlett wrote:
> > Lisi Reisz wrote:  
> > > On Saturday 31 October 2015 16:18:15 Mario Castelán Castro wrote:  
> > >> El 31/10/15 a las 10:05, Richard Owlett escribió:  
> > >>> Martin Read wrote:  
> > >>>> On 31/10/15 12:02, Chris Bannister wrote:  
> > >>>>> Logically, doesn't it make more sense to make it so that you
> > >>>>> install
> > >>>>> with the minimum number of packages necessary, and then
> > >>>>> download any
> > >>>>> extra packages you want *after* the install?  
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Only if you accept austere minimalism as axiomatically good.  
> > >>>
> > >>> *YES* <grin>
> > >>> That 'yes' would not have been so bold except Debian defaults go too
> > >>> far in the other direction. E.G. I just installed Squeeze to one
> > >>> machine be cause I like some Gnome2 features that Gnome3 zapped and I'm
> > >>> not sure exist in MATE (am investigating).
> > >>>
> > >>> Applications->Internet lists 8 applications, none of which are of
> > >>> interest and does not list the only internet application I need
> > >>> (SeaMonkey).
> > >>> System->Administration lists 10 applications, only 1 of which I use
> > >>> more than once a month (Synaptic) and doesn't list one I use almost
> > >>> daily (Gparted).
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm working on learning debootstrap and multistrap to have things
> > >>> suitably minimal and powerful simultaneously.  
> > >>
> > >> I have also noticed that Debian installs a lot of "extra" programs by
> > >> default. For example, when I installed LXDE using the latest (Debian 7)
> > >> LXDE CD and, I obtained LibreOffice, Iceweasel and Deluge (among many
> > >> others), none of which are part of LXDE, and of those, I only wanted
> > >> Icweasel installed since the beginning.
> > >>
> > >> If you want to control more precisely which packages get installed, you
> > >> can also install a text-only system and then add the additional packages
> > >> with the package manager. It won't give the same results and isn't as
> > >> flexible as Debootstrap or Multistrap, of course.  
> > >
> > > It isn't Debian that installs all those packages.  It's the DE. All
> > > anyone has to do to avoid them is not install a DE.  You are given the
> > > option.
> > >
> > > Lisi  
> >
> > But extraneous cruft is not intrinsic to using a DE.   
> 
> Yes, it is.  That is why it is called an environment.  That is what makes it 
> an environment.  Without cruft it is effectively a window manager.

Not necessarily. A desktop environment can be a rather minimal collection of
programs- a window manager, desktop background thingy, file manager, and panel
qualifies as a desktop environment. At the very least, a desktop environment is
just a window manager packaged with some other useful stuff. Xfce comes pretty
close to just being a window manager (xfwm), a desktop (xfdesktop) a panel
(xfpanel), and a file manager (thunar). A desktop environment doesn't need to
be packed full of cruft.

If by 'desktop environment' you are referring to the bloated RAM-eating
monstrosities known only as GNOME and KDE (especially KDE) then I take the
cruft point.

Thread

Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2015-10-31 12:00 +0100
  Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-10-31 12:40 +0100
    Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 12:50 +0100
      Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-10-31 13:10 +0100
        Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 14:10 +0100
        Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Martin Read <zen75502@zen.co.uk> - 2015-10-31 16:10 +0100
          Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 16:30 +0100
            Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-10-31 17:10 +0100
          Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-10-31 17:10 +0100
            Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Mario Castelán Castro  <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-10-31 17:20 +0100
              Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 17:30 +0100
                Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-10-31 17:40 +0100
                Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 19:20 +0100
                Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-02 17:40 +0100
                Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Mario Castelán Castro  <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-10-31 20:20 +0100
                Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-01 00:00 +0100
                Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Mario Castelán Castro  <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-11-02 20:50 +0100
                Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-10-31 20:30 +0100
                Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-10-31 20:40 +0100
                Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-10-31 20:40 +0100
              Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-10-31 17:40 +0100
        Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-02 17:40 +0100
          Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 18:00 +0100
          Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-11-02 20:10 +0100
    How to identify obsolete packages (was: Anybody know why aptitude  is not installed by default in Sid?) Stephen Powell <zlinuxman@wowway.com> - 2015-10-31 15:40 +0100
      Re: How to identify obsolete packages (was: Anybody know why  aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?) Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 15:40 +0100
        Re: How to identify obsolete packages (was: Anybody know why  aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?) Stephen Powell <zlinuxman@wowway.com> - 2015-10-31 17:10 +0100
      Re: How to identify obsolete packages (was: Anybody know why aptitude  is not installed by default in Sid?) kamaraju kusumanchi <raju.mailinglists@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 16:30 +0100
        [SOLVED] How to identify obsolete packages Stephen Powell <zlinuxman@wowway.com> - 2015-10-31 17:40 +0100
          Re: [SOLVED] How to identify obsolete packages kamaraju kusumanchi <raju.mailinglists@gmail.com> - 2015-11-01 04:50 +0100
          Re: [SOLVED] How to identify obsolete packages Jörg-Volker Peetz <jvpeetz@web.de> - 2015-11-01 21:40 +0100
      Re: How to identify obsolete packages (was: Anybody know why aptitude  is not installed by default in Sid?) Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2015-10-31 18:30 +0100
        Re: How to identify obsolete packages Stephen Powell <zlinuxman@wowway.com> - 2015-10-31 20:10 +0100
    Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-10-31 20:10 +0100
  Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-10-31 17:10 +0100
    Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-10-31 20:00 +0100
      Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2015-10-31 20:20 +0100
        Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Javi Barroso <javibarroso@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 21:20 +0100
          Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-10-31 21:40 +0100
            Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Javi Barroso <javibarroso@gmail.com> - 2015-11-01 00:20 +0100
              Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-11-01 02:10 +0100
                Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-11-01 14:00 +0100
      Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2015-10-31 20:50 +0100
        Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2015-10-31 22:20 +0100
          Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2015-10-31 23:20 +0100
        Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2015-11-03 23:40 +0100
    Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Tim McDonough <tmcdonough@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 22:30 +0100
      Re: minimal installation (was: Anybody know why...) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2015-10-31 23:10 +0100
      Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 23:50 +0100
  Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2015-11-01 01:00 +0100
    Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Alex Moonshine <moonshine@openmailbox.org> - 2015-11-02 08:50 +0100
      Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2015-11-02 09:50 +0100
        Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2015-11-02 11:10 +0100
          Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-11-02 12:20 +0100
            Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 12:40 +0100
              Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-11-02 13:20 +0100
                Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 16:10 +0100
                Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-11-02 21:00 +0100
                Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 23:20 +0100
                Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-11-03 00:40 +0100
                Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 01:00 +0100
                Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 01:00 +0100
                Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-11-03 10:10 +0100
          Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2015-11-02 14:30 +0100
          Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? "John L. Ries" <jries@salford-systems.com> - 2015-11-02 20:50 +0100
            Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-11-03 05:00 +0100
        Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-11-03 04:40 +0100
          Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Glenn English <ghe@slsware.net> - 2015-11-03 16:20 +0100
            Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2015-11-03 20:30 +0100

csiph-web