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Groups > comp.lang.c > #142278

Re: C wish list

From David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: C wish list
Date 2019-03-23 13:47 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <q759ts$9bf$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (10 earlier) <GP3lE.407767$%B.175266@fx03.am4> <q72npb$qtv$1@dont-email.me> <Yt6lE.304038$7F3.192949@fx30.am4> <q72tse$fn$1@dont-email.me> <2J7lE.185089$1p7.119303@fx05.am4>

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On 22/03/2019 17:05, Bart wrote:
> On 22/03/2019 15:10, David Brown wrote:
>> On 22/03/2019 15:40, Bart wrote:
> 
>>> So what language is? (I don't count HLAs here.)
>>
>> What is the next language sideways from Lisp?
>>
>> It's a meaningless question.
> 
> Is C higher or lower level than Python? That's easy to answer. In that 
> case it shouldn't be hard to find a language X which is higher level 
> than ASM, and lower level than X, and that is portable.

C is lower level than Python - few would argue about that.  That tells 
us /nothing/ about whether there is a language between C and assembly.

Perhaps you imagine there is a way of generating a single number for a 
language, it's "level".  In your mind, assembly has level 1, C has level 
3, Python has level 20, and your own language has level 8 (picking 
numbers out the air here).  You think therefore that we could allocate 
such numbers to all languages, put them all on a nice, neat ordered 
list, and then see what language X is.

That is, of course, total nonsense.  There is no such "level number". 
There are features of languages that can be considered "higher level" or 
"lower level", and different languages have wildly different mixtures of 
such features.  There are things that are used in "lower level" 
programming, and things that are used in "higher level" programming - 
but the levels and comparisons are all highly subjective.

Your question is as meaningless as asking for the next step on the way 
from pizza to steak and chips.

(I've seen people struggle with such concepts in many areas.  People 
like to be able to place things in a nice, clean, ordered line - but it 
is rarely realistic.)

> 
> But if X is elusive, then it might well be that C is the X I'm looking 
> for. In other words, the next one up from ASM. The one you said 'Nope' 
> too (and which made thing think, you seeming so certain, that you knew 
> of one for which you'd say 'Yep').)
> 
> 
>>>> The example he gave was:
>>>>
>>>>      int x = 1 << 31;
>>>>      int y = x / 5;
> 
>> The point is, you are not loading a 32-bit signed int value -0x80000000
>> into a 64-bit register.  You are loading a 32-bit signed int value 1
>> into the 64-bit register, then shifting it 31 bits left, then dividing
>> it by 5.
>>
>> At no point does C require an intermediary value of -0x80000000.
> 
> I don't believe this. Or it is you not understanding how C has to work.

I think we can agree quite solidly that we have /different/ 
understandings of how C works.  We merely disagree on which is the 
correct understanding, and who is wrong.

I am correct - you are wrong.  I have the C standards on my side, you do 
not.

> 
> You are saying that here:
> 
>           int32_t x = f();
>           int32_t y = <some expression involving x, such as x>>8>
> 
> it is acceptable to use a 64-bit version of x, even though x is only 32 
> bits, because it's using a value left over in a 64-bit register from 
> some immediately prior calculation of x.

Ignoring your somewhat jumbled syntax (I can't figure out if it is 
supposed to be a smiley, or what it is), then yes.

There are two general principles here, and I think you fail to 
appreciate either of them.

First, with fully defined code, the compiler can do whatever it wants as 
long as the final "observable behaviour" matches what you would get on 
the "C abstract machine".  Intermediary calculations can do anything, in 
any way, using any sizes or instructions, as long as the results are 
correct.

Secondly, when there is undefined behaviour, the compiler can do 
anything it wants.  /Anything/.

Generally, assuming a sane compiler, what this means is the compiler 
will take the shortest path - it will give the fastest, smallest, most 
efficient code it can while ignoring the possibility that undefined 
behaviour could occur.

If you write:

int foo(int x, int y) {
	int a = x * x + 1;
	int b = a << y;
	if (b > 0) return 1;
	if (b < 0) return -1;
	return 0;
}

the compiler can assume first that "x * x" does not overflow, so the 
result is non-negative.  Adding 1 cannot overflow, so "a" is strictly 
positive.  "a << y" cannot overflow, so "b" is strictly positive.  Thus 
the whole function reduces to "return 1;".

At no point need it calculate any intermediary results.


And in a case like this, the fact that choosing 32-bit or 64-bit 
registers and operations only makes a difference when there is undefined 
behaviour, means that the compiler can choose whichever sizes it wants 
for code speed and efficiency.  If a cpu can do the 64-bit operations 
faster or with smaller code, then that is the code the compiler should 
generate.

> 
> If that is actually what C allows, then it is even crazier than I'd 
> already thought, and that is saying something.
> 
> If you are saying that that is only allowed because of UB, then that 
> does little to change my opinion. It is certainly more crazy stuff that 
> the OP is complaining about.

You have been told repeatedly that C is not the language you think, and 
does not work the way you think.  I believe that if you learned to read 
and think, and appreciate that other people are trying to help you 
understand C, then you could get a handle on it.  Whether you then like 
or dislike C as it really is, is a different matter - but at least you 
have a chance to learn to like it, or learn to use it properly.  As long 
as you keep trying to force your misconceptions on it, you will not like 
the language, you will hate the tools, and you will get things wrong.

> 
>> Tell me, what results did you get when you tried this on a DEC Alpha?
>> Or when you say, "all the C compilers I've tried", do you mean a few
>> mainstream C x86 compilers, and a few x86
>> toy/experimental/limited/partial C compilers ?
> 
> I tried some C and C++ compilers on rextester.com. I don't know what 
> hardware they ran on, but they all gave the same results as on my PC.

It is a dotnet online compiler - it runs on x86-64.  That took all of 3 
seconds to find out.

> 
> I also tried it on my new language which is all 64-bit, uses 64-bit 
> registers, and promotes narrower types to 64-bits (my current one 
> doesn't promote).

What bit of "x86" do you find hard to comprehend?

And why would you possibly consider a test on /your/ tools to be 
relevant?  They are written by someone who doesn't understand C, for a 
different language, on a processor where it is more efficient to 
generate code that does the calculations as 32-bit.

Your tests don't strengthen your argument - they strengthen the image 
that you don't know what you are talking about.

> 
> It still gave the same results, because the x in 'x/5' MUST be a 32-bit 
> quantity, since x has a 32-bit type. However, if I define y like this:
> 
>      int32 y:=(1<<31)/5
> 
> then it will give the other result (a positive value), because (1<<31) 
> is representable as 64 bits, and calculations are done as 64 bits.
> 
> So, you say the C compiler on DEC Alpha will give a nonsensical result? 

$DIETY only knows what results you would get for /your/ language.  But 
for C, a compiler can happily use 64-bit calculations in this case - and 
I /think/ that on a DEC Alpha, that would give more efficient code.

A compiler is only required to generate sensible results from sensible 
inputs - if your inputs are not in the ranges defined by the language, 
then there is /no/ sensible output, and the compiler can do what it 
wants.  "Garbage in, garbage out" has been established principle since 
Babbage's day.

"""
On two occasions I have been asked, "pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into 
the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?  I am not 
able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could 
provoke such a question.
"""


> That's something to stay clear of then, rather than it putting forward 
> as some sort of bizarre argument for C being superior because of its UB. 
> All I see is a bug.
> 

That's because you are looking in the mirror.

No one is asking you to /like/ the way C handles integer overflow and 
other kinds of undefined behaviour.  I am merely asking you to 
/understand/ it.

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Thread

C wish list Howard Chu <highlandsun@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 14:58 -0700
  Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-19 15:58 -0700
    Re: C wish list Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2019-03-20 08:27 +0200
      Re: C wish list Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2019-03-20 06:54 +0000
        Re: C wish list Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2019-03-20 07:00 +0000
        Re: C wish list Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2019-03-20 13:26 +0200
          Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-20 08:17 -0400
            Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-20 13:20 -0700
      Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-20 01:43 -0700
      Re: C wish list scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-03-20 13:11 +0000
    Re: C wish list Howard Chu <highlandsun@gmail.com> - 2019-03-20 09:17 -0700
      Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-20 09:34 -0700
        Re: C wish list Howard Chu <highlandsun@gmail.com> - 2019-03-20 10:06 -0700
          Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-20 10:47 -0700
            Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-20 17:59 +0000
              Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-20 11:12 -0700
              Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-20 13:47 -0700
            Re: C wish list Howard Chu <highlandsun@gmail.com> - 2019-03-20 11:46 -0700
              Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-20 19:21 +0000
              Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-20 12:31 -0700
                Re: C wish list Howard Chu <highlandsun@gmail.com> - 2019-03-20 12:41 -0700
                Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-20 14:34 -0700
              Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-20 13:52 -0700
          Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-20 11:04 -0700
          Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-20 13:43 -0700
  C wish list fir is a sexy shemale <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 16:57 -0700
  Re: C wish list Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2019-03-20 05:45 +0000
    Re: C wish list Howard Chu <highlandsun@gmail.com> - 2019-03-20 09:22 -0700
      Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-20 14:02 -0700
        Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-20 22:55 +0100
          Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-20 15:15 -0700
            Re: C wish list Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-20 23:56 +0000
              Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-20 17:52 -0700
            Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-21 11:08 +0100
      Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-20 22:54 +0100
        Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-20 22:22 +0000
          Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-21 15:29 +0100
            Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-21 14:47 +0000
              Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-21 22:26 +0100
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-21 22:18 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-22 09:28 +0100
          Re: C wish list antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2019-03-21 18:00 +0000
            Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-21 18:57 +0000
              Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-21 22:32 +0100
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-21 22:11 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-22 11:30 +0100
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-22 11:39 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-22 14:26 +0100
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-22 14:40 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-22 16:10 +0100
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-22 16:05 +0000
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-22 11:54 -0700
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-22 19:19 +0000
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-22 12:29 -0700
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-22 19:36 +0000
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-22 13:54 -0700
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-23 13:33 +0000
                Re: C wish list Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-23 14:46 +0000
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-23 15:00 +0000
                Re: C wish list Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-23 15:24 +0000
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-23 18:23 +0000
                Re: C wish list Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-23 22:40 +0000
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-23 22:59 +0000
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-23 16:24 -0700
                Re: C wish list Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-24 01:57 +0000
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-24 11:14 +0000
                Re: C wish list Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-24 14:01 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-24 16:11 +0100
                Re: C wish list Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-25 07:34 -0700
                Re: C wish list Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-25 17:11 +0000
                Re: C wish list Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-03-23 11:41 -0400
                Re: C wish list antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2019-03-23 19:52 +0000
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-23 22:30 +0000
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-23 16:07 -0700
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-24 16:42 +0100
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-24 16:12 +0000
                Re: C wish list antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2019-03-24 17:59 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-24 22:19 +0100
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-24 22:13 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-25 01:27 +0100
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-23 16:51 +0100
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-23 18:34 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-24 16:48 +0100
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-23 13:51 -0700
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-24 17:05 +0100
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-23 12:41 -0700
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-23 22:55 +0000
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-23 16:20 -0700
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-23 23:40 +0000
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-23 18:35 -0700
                Re: C wish list Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-03-23 20:19 -0400
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-24 12:06 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-24 17:41 +0100
                Re: C wish list Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-03-24 22:42 -0400
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-24 20:21 -0700
                Re: C wish list Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-03-25 07:53 -0400
                Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-25 11:22 -0700
                Re: C wish list Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-03-26 23:28 -0400
                Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-27 07:49 -0400
                Re: C wish list Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-04-10 08:35 -0700
                Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-04-10 09:18 -0700
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-24 17:23 +0100
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-24 16:51 +0000
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-24 16:38 -0700
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-25 01:32 +0100
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-25 00:51 +0000
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-24 17:57 -0700
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-25 01:05 +0000
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-24 18:35 -0700
                Re: C wish list Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2019-03-25 06:19 +0000
                Re: C wish list antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2019-03-24 18:51 +0000
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-24 19:08 +0000
                Re: C wish list Ike Naar <ike@sdf.lonestar.org> - 2019-03-24 19:36 +0000
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-24 19:45 +0000
                Re: C wish list Ike Naar <ike@sdf.lonestar.org> - 2019-03-24 19:49 +0000
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-24 20:10 +0000
                Re: C wish list Ike Naar <ike@sdf.lonestar.org> - 2019-03-25 06:43 +0000
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-25 11:17 +0000
                Re: C wish list Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-03-25 06:22 -0700
                Re: C wish list Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-25 17:01 +0000
                Re: C wish list Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-25 00:44 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-24 17:09 +0100
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-24 16:12 -0700
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-23 13:47 +0100
                Re: C wish list Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-23 14:24 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-23 17:18 +0100
                Re: C wish list Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-23 17:53 +0000
                On "high-levelness" of languages (was "C wish list") Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2019-03-24 00:23 +0000
                Re: On "high-levelness" of languages (was "C wish list") Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-23 18:37 -0700
                Re: On "high-levelness" of languages (was "C wish list") David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-24 22:22 +0100
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-24 21:58 +0100
                Re: C wish list Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-25 01:12 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-25 09:48 +0100
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-23 14:25 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-23 18:06 +0100
                Re: C wish list scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-03-23 17:59 +0000
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-22 11:46 -0700
                Re: C wish list Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2019-03-22 19:59 +0000
                Re: C wish list Howard Chu <highlandsun@gmail.com> - 2019-03-22 20:30 -0700
                Re: C wish list Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-03-25 22:33 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-23 18:12 +0100
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-23 13:00 -0700
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-24 22:27 +0100
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-23 23:34 +0000
                Re: C wish list antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2019-03-24 17:43 +0000
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-24 19:44 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-24 22:55 +0100
                Re: C wish list Howard Chu <highlandsun@gmail.com> - 2019-03-24 20:37 -0700
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-24 21:54 -0700
                Re: C wish list Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2019-03-25 06:11 +0000
                Re: C wish list Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-03-25 07:59 -0400
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-25 14:26 +0100
                Re: C wish list Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2019-03-25 15:59 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-25 22:04 +0100
                Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-25 14:54 -0700
                Re: C wish list Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2019-03-25 22:35 +0000
                Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-25 21:41 -0400
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-26 09:44 +0100
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-26 09:42 +0100
                Re: C wish list Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-04-10 08:32 -0700
                Re: C wish list Howard Chu <highlandsun@gmail.com> - 2019-03-25 12:53 -0700
                Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-25 13:20 -0700
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-25 13:40 -0700
                Re: C wish list Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-03-26 07:28 -0400
                Re: C wish list Howard Chu <highlandsun@gmail.com> - 2019-03-26 09:42 -0700
                Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-26 13:08 -0400
                Re: C wish list Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-03-27 08:57 +1300
                Re: C wish list Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-03-26 22:53 -0400
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-27 10:27 +0100
                Re: C wish list Howard Chu <highlandsun@gmail.com> - 2019-03-28 08:04 -0700
                Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-28 09:03 -0700
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-28 16:26 +0000
                Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-28 13:02 -0700
                Re: C wish list Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-04-09 04:25 -0700
                Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-04-09 07:03 -0700
                Re: C wish list scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-04-09 14:31 +0000
                Re: C wish list Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-04-10 08:27 -0700
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-25 13:05 -0700
                Re: C wish list Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2019-03-25 06:06 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-25 09:39 +0100
                Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-25 21:26 -0400
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-26 09:55 +0100
                Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-26 08:57 -0400
                Re: C wish list Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-26 15:22 +0000
                Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-26 13:10 -0400
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-25 19:08 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-25 22:24 +0100
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-25 22:08 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-26 10:20 +0100
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-26 11:58 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-26 16:49 +0100
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-26 16:23 +0000
                Re: C wish list Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2019-03-26 13:24 -0400
                Re: C wish list Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-03-26 10:31 -0700
                Re: C wish list Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2019-03-26 13:03 -0500
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-26 11:53 -0700
                Re: C wish list scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-03-26 19:59 +0000
                Re: C wish list Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-03-27 09:24 +1300
                Re: C wish list scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-03-26 20:54 +0000
                Re: C wish list Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-03-27 09:58 +1300
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-26 13:43 -0700
                Re: C wish list antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2019-03-26 22:49 +0000
                Re: C wish list Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-03-27 21:02 +0000
                Re: C wish list antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2019-03-28 18:04 +0000
                Re: C wish list Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-03-28 19:53 +0000
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-26 18:25 +0000
                Re: C wish list antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2019-03-26 14:47 +0000
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-26 18:14 +0000
                Re: C wish list antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2019-03-26 22:31 +0000
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-27 00:08 +0000
                Re: C wish list antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2019-03-28 18:45 +0000
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-21 15:13 -0700
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-21 22:29 +0000
                Re: C wish list Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-21 23:51 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-22 11:37 +0100
                Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-22 07:54 -0400
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-22 13:15 +0000
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-22 14:31 +0100
                Re: C wish list Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-21 22:55 -0700
                Re: C wish list Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-03-22 07:17 -0700
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-22 16:16 +0100
                Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-22 12:06 -0700
              Re: C wish list antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2019-03-23 16:59 +0000
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-23 21:36 +0000
                Re: C wish list antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2019-03-24 16:16 +0000
                Re: C wish list Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-24 20:25 +0000
                Re: C wish list antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2019-03-25 20:00 +0000
                Re: C wish list Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2019-03-24 21:56 +0000
    Re: C wish list Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-21 22:39 -0700
  Re: C wish list Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2019-03-20 06:10 +0000
  Re: C wish list Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-03-20 06:57 +0000
  Re: C wish list Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2019-03-20 11:06 +0100
    Re: C wish list Howard Chu <highlandsun@gmail.com> - 2019-03-20 09:24 -0700
    Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-20 13:15 -0700
      Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-21 15:38 +0100
        Re: C wish list Howard Chu <highlandsun@gmail.com> - 2019-03-21 09:17 -0700
          Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-21 09:58 -0700
            Re: C wish list scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-03-21 17:22 +0000
            Re: C wish list Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2019-03-21 23:44 -0500
          Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-21 12:43 -0700
  Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-20 16:53 +0100
    Re: C wish list Howard Chu <highlandsun@gmail.com> - 2019-03-20 09:30 -0700
      Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-20 22:58 +0100
        Re: C wish list Howard Chu <highlandsun@gmail.com> - 2019-03-20 15:41 -0700
          Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-20 20:12 -0400
          Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-21 16:00 +0100
            Re: C wish list Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-03-21 08:10 -0700
              Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-21 22:35 +0100
              Re: C wish list jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2019-03-22 10:32 +0100
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-22 12:25 +0100
                Re: C wish list jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2019-03-22 18:15 +0100
                Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-24 15:29 +0100
                Re: C wish list Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2019-03-24 22:03 +0000
            Re: C wish list Howard Chu <highlandsun@gmail.com> - 2019-03-21 10:43 -0700
              Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-21 15:09 -0400
              Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-21 12:45 -0700
            Re: C wish list Howard Chu <highlandsun@gmail.com> - 2019-03-21 10:53 -0700
              Re: C wish list James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-21 15:18 -0400
              Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-21 12:55 -0700
              Re: C wish list Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2019-03-21 19:55 +0000
    Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-20 13:29 -0700
      Re: C wish list scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-03-20 21:12 +0000
      Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-20 23:02 +0100
    Re: C wish list Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-20 20:32 +0000
      Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-20 23:08 +0100
        Re: C wish list Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-21 00:25 +0000
          Re: C wish list Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-03-21 07:12 +0000
            Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-21 16:13 +0100
          Re: C wish list David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-21 16:11 +0100
            Re: C wish list Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-21 17:04 +0000
              Re: C wish list Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-21 13:02 -0700
                Re: C wish list Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-21 22:03 +0000
  Re: C wish list Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-23 07:25 -0700
    Re: C wish list Howard Chu <highlandsun@gmail.com> - 2019-03-23 11:38 -0700
      Re: C wish list Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-25 07:59 -0700
        Re: C wish list Howard Chu <highlandsun@gmail.com> - 2019-04-16 11:13 -0700

csiph-web