Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #478316

Re: One way speed of light

From	Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: One way speed of light
Date	2018-11-28 17:20 +0000
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<ptmipq$4pd$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(1 earlier) <51d502aa-5dd2-4028-9712-80c759933c5c@googlegroups.com> <pthokn$1v5o$2@gioia.aioe.org> <g652qdFi448U1@mid.individual.net> <ptjs95$1e1r$2@gioia.aioe.org> <g67qrbF68otU1@mid.individual.net>

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Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:
> Am 27.11.2018 um 17:44 schrieb Odd Bodkin:
>> Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:
>>> Am 26.11.2018 um 22:29 schrieb Odd Bodkin:
>>> 
>>>>>> This two way measurement could easily cancel out any effect (with or
>>>>>> without an ether) because acceleration of one trip would be balanced by
>>>>>> deceleration on the way back.
>>>>> 
>>>>> No, actually. It's a high-school-level exercise to see that this is not so.
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jan
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> To wit:
>>>> Jimmy can swim at 3 miles per hour with respect to the water. Jimmy decides
>>>> to swim in a river that has a current of 1 mile per hour. He swims upstream
>>>> a quarter mile relative to the shore, and then he turns around and swims
>>>> downstream a quarter mile to his starting point at the shore, a total of a
>>>> half mile swum. What is his average speed relative to the shore for the
>>>> trip?
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The swimmer swims faster downstream and slower upstream, because we had
>>> to add the velocity of the water in one case and subtract it in the other.
>>> 
>>> The time is an eighth of an hour up and a sixteenth downstream and that
>>> is 675 seconds for a half mile. The result is roughly 1.19 m/s
>> 
>> And is his average speed 3 miles per hour? Yes or no?
> 
> 
> How could you STILL use miles?
> 
> 
> There average is not 3 miles per hour, since you make an average as 
> distance traveled by time needed.

Exactly. 

And for the same reason, if you have a 2-way light speed measurement such
as the MMX, then even if there were a luminiferous ether that the apparatus
was moving through, so that upstream speed is c-v and downstream speed is
c+v, the average speed for the round trip will not be c. 

Thus, though this was not technically available in 1887, it is now quite
easily attainable to simply do a 2-way light traverse over, say, a couple
hundred meters and TIME the flight of a light pulse and see if the time is
different than c. Because if there were an ether that the apparatus was
moving through with speed v, you’d expect to measure an average speed of c’
= c(1-(v/c)^2). For v/c = 1/20, then c’ would differ from c by 1/4%, which
for a total distance of, say, 400 m, corresponds to a time resolution of
3ns, which is VERY doable. No one does it today of course, because the
matter is already settled. But YOU could do it with a pulsed laser in a
long darkened pipe with a couple mirrors, a photodiode, and an
oscilloscope. 

> 
> Since you gain less at higher speed  (say: double velocity) than what 
> you loose on lower speed, the average is influenced by the velocity.
> 
> example:
> 
> you need one minute with a for 1 km at 1km/min.
> But if you travel with 2km/min you save 30 seconds.
> 
> If you travel with 0.5 km/min you need 2 min for one km at 0.5 km/min, 
> hence need 60 seconds more.
> 
> but 60 minus 30 is not zero.
> 
> So THIS average is wrong, in connection to speed of light, since c is so 
> much faster than the possible speed of movement through the 'ether'.
> 
> TH
> 
> so you need 30 seconds more, if you swim upstream an them downstream.
> 
> 

-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

Thread

One way speed of light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-11-26 16:01 +0100
  Re: One way speed of light Lee Primer <itoo@wodinwnc.cg> - 2018-11-26 15:50 +0000
  Re: One way speed of light Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-26 21:48 +0100
    Re: One way speed of light "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-11-27 07:07 -0800
      Re: One way speed of light Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-29 02:09 +0100
  Re: One way speed of light JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-11-26 13:04 -0800
    Re: One way speed of light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-26 21:29 +0000
      Re: One way speed of light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-11-27 15:31 +0100
        Re: One way speed of light Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com.INVALID> - 2018-11-27 15:59 +0100
          Re: One way speed of light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-11-27 16:26 +0100
            Re: One way speed of light moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-11-27 16:47 +0000
            Re: One way speed of light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-27 16:54 +0000
            Re: One way speed of light Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com.INVALID> - 2018-11-27 18:01 +0100
          Re: One way speed of light Lee Primer <itoo@wodinwnc.cg> - 2018-11-28 00:55 +0000
            Re: One way speed of light Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com.INVALID> - 2018-11-28 05:14 +0100
              Re: One way speed of light Lee Primer <itoo@wodinwnc.cg> - 2018-11-28 15:13 +0000
        Re: One way speed of light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-27 16:44 +0000
          Re: One way speed of light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-11-28 16:34 +0100
            Re: One way speed of light Lee Primer <itoo@wodinwnc.cg> - 2018-11-28 15:40 +0000
            Re: One way speed of light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-28 17:20 +0000
              Re: One way speed of light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-11-29 20:43 +0100
                Re: One way speed of light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-29 20:53 +0000
                Re: One way speed of light Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com.INVALID> - 2018-11-29 22:21 +0100
                Re: One way speed of light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-11-30 21:15 +0100
                Re: One way speed of light moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-11-30 22:46 +0000
                Re: One way speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-11-30 17:23 -0600
                Re: One way speed of light Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-01 00:34 +0100
                Re: One way speed of light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 23:40 +0000
                Re: One way speed of light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-01 16:17 +0100
                Re: One way speed of light "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-01 07:32 -0800
                Re: One way speed of light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-02 13:50 +0100
                Re: One way speed of light Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-02 05:11 -0800
                Re: One way speed of light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-03 12:23 +0100
                Re: One way speed of light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 18:53 +0000
                Re: One way speed of light mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-12-03 11:25 -0800
                Re: One way speed of light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-04 13:04 +0100
                Re: One way speed of light Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-03 11:57 -0800
                Re: One way speed of light alsor@interia.pl - 2018-12-03 13:28 -0800
                Re: One way speed of light mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-12-03 13:56 -0800
                Re: One way speed of light alsor@interia.pl - 2018-12-03 14:13 -0800
                Re: One way speed of light Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-02 14:44 +0100
                Re: One way speed of light "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-02 07:13 -0800
                Re: One way speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-02 10:28 -0600
                Re: One way speed of light Mole Santiago <msb@awwnuvs.an> - 2018-12-02 18:42 +0000
                Re: One way speed of light alsor@interia.pl - 2018-12-02 11:08 -0800
                Re: One way speed of light moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-02 18:49 +0000
                Re: One way speed of light Mole Santiago <msb@awwnuvs.an> - 2018-12-02 18:57 +0000
                Re: One way speed of light Mole Santiago <msb@awwnuvs.an> - 2018-12-02 18:58 +0000
                Re: One way speed of light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-02 21:23 +0000
                Re: One way speed of light Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-01 18:20 +0100
                Re: One way speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-11-29 16:03 -0600
                Re: One way speed of light mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-11-29 15:03 -0800
                Re: One way speed of light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-11-30 21:18 +0100
                Re: One way speed of light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 15:43 +0000
                Re: One way speed of light Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-02 14:58 +0100
                Re: One way speed of light moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-11-29 23:38 +0000
                Re: One way speed of light mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-11-29 16:40 -0800
                Re: One way speed of light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 03:22 +0000
                Re: One way speed of light benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-11-29 22:41 -0500
                Re: One way speed of light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 12:13 +0000
                Re: One way speed of light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-11-30 21:21 +0100
                Re: One way speed of light Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com.INVALID> - 2018-11-30 22:10 +0100
                Re: One way speed of light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-12-01 16:26 +0100
                Re: One way speed of light moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-11-30 23:01 +0000
                Re: One way speed of light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 23:03 +0000
                Re: One way speed of light Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-01 00:43 +0100
            Re: One way speed of light Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-29 02:01 +0100
            Re: One way speed of light Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-29 02:04 +0100
  Re: One way speed of light alsor@interia.pl - 2018-11-26 15:51 -0800
    Re: One way speed of light Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-11-26 18:53 -0800
      Re: One way speed of light alsor@interia.pl - 2018-11-27 09:49 -0800
  Re: One way speed of light numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-11-28 15:11 -0800
  Re: One way speed of light mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-11-29 14:19 -0800
  Re: One way speed of light carleto4157990662@gmail.com - 2018-11-29 14:36 -0800
    Re: One way speed of light benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-11-29 22:28 -0500
    Re: One way speed of light mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-11-29 20:08 -0800
  Re: One way speed of light carleto4157990662@gmail.com - 2018-11-29 15:10 -0800
  Re: One way speed of light alsor@interia.pl - 2018-11-30 12:48 -0800
    Alex Sorokin, persistent imbecile "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-01 07:34 -0800

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