Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #476270

Re: E=mc2

From	Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: E=mc2
Date	2018-11-05 03:00 +0000
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<probop$nsq$2@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <prnd3u$199m$2@gioia.aioe.org> <7a7dc18c-b890-ba35-96db-8e693518cd22@PointedEars.de> <prnhrb$1hgb$1@gioia.aioe.org> <prnr0d$1pl$2@gioia.aioe.org> <prntvs$6i0$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/4/2018 5:14 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 11/4/2018 2:01 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>> benj wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Wake up dumbass. You can prove E=mc² from Maxwell's equations.
>>>> 
>>>> No, but you can be _deduced_ from that, assuming that the special principle
>>>> of relativity holds.  That is precisely what Einstein did in his second
>>>> (“annus mirabilis”) 1905 paper on what became special relativity, “Does the
>>>> Inertia of a Body Depend Upon Its Energy Content?”:
>>>> 
>>>> <https://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol2-trans/186>
>>>> 
>>>> Later, in 1929, Paul Dirac showed that it – and more generally, the
>>>> energy–momentum relation – can be derived from the properties of flat
>>>> spacetime alone:
>>>> 
>>>> With
>>>> 
>>>> p⃗    = γ m v⃗ = γ m (v_x, v_y, v_z)
>>>> P⃗    = (E/c, p⃗) = γ m (c, v⃗)
>>>> ||P⃗||² = (E/c)² − p⃗² = m²c²
>>>> 
>>>> one finds
>>>> 
>>>> E² = m²c⁴ + p⃗²c²
>>>> 
>>>> which gives for the *rest* energy (when v⃗ = 0)
>>>> 
>>>> E₀ = m c².
>>>> 
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy%E2%80%93momentum_relation>
>>>> 
>>>>> Exponent is squared.
>>>> 
>>>> Correct.
>>>> 
>>>> However, previously you have claimed the opposite of what follows from
>>>> Maxwell’s equations, namely that the isotropy of the speed of light would
>>>> merely be an assumption (instead of an experimental fact).
>>> 
>>> The Constancy of the speed of light was an assumption made by Einstein
>>> to develop special relativity.
>> 
>> Which is in fact redundant, given the principle of relativity applied to
>> electrodynamics.
> 
> Einstein didn't know it at the time.

Actually, he did.  That’s the section of the 1905 paper where he formulates
the covariant form of the electromagnetic field. Kinda the point. 

>  Nobody did, which was the whole 
> question of the age. Glad to see that you have now won the "who is 
> smarter than Einstein" contest again. Maybe you should argue like Mr. 
> Vulcan that Einstein never said it. You've read all his books and papers.
> 
>>> 
>>>> While it follows from Maxwell’s equations that which is an experimental
>>>> fact, namely that the speed of light c is isotropic as it only depends on
>>>> the electromagnetic properties of the medium through which (Maxwell’s)
>>>> electromagnetic waves, such as light, travel:
>>>> 
>>>> c = 1/√(ε₀ ε_r µ₀ µ_r).
>>>> 
>>>> So, are you retracting that claim?
>>> 
>>> However "[one can] develop relativistic electromagnetism solely on the
>>> basis of electromagnetic retardation and the principle of [Galilean]
>>> relativity without any additional postulates, hypotheses, or conjectures."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

Thread

E=mc2 Omar Shabsigh <omar.shabsigh@gmail.com> - 2018-11-01 14:43 -0700
  Re: E=mc2 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-01 22:55 +0000
  E=mc2 "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-11-01 16:04 -0700
    Re: E=mc2 "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-11-02 09:21 -0700
      Re: E=mc2 "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-11-02 09:52 -0700
        Re: E=mc2 "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-11-02 15:28 -0700
  Re: E=mc2 Omar Shabsigh <omar.shabsigh@gmail.com> - 2018-11-01 17:53 -0700
    Re: E=mc2 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-02 01:02 +0000
    Re: E=mc2 Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-11-02 18:43 +0100
      Re: E=mc2 mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-11-02 11:21 -0700
  Re: E=mc2 Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-11-02 13:35 +1100
    Re: E=mc2 mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-11-01 21:43 -0700
    Re: E=mc2 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-11-01 23:09 -0700
    Re: E=mc2 mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-11-02 01:33 -0700
    Re: E=mc2 Buck Dehner <uktoa@yswdoez.cb> - 2018-11-04 12:34 +0000
      Re: E=mc2 Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-11-04 14:20 +0100
        Re: E=mc2 "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-11-04 05:51 -0800
        Re: E=mc2 Buck Dehner <uktoa@yswdoez.cb> - 2018-11-05 20:51 +0000
          Re: E=mc2 Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-11-06 10:57 +1100
            Re: E=mc2 Ntowicz Usarczyk <iswso@wioioksi.io> - 2018-11-06 20:21 +0000
              Re: E=mc2 Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-11-07 08:57 +1100
                Re: E=mc2 Ntowicz Usarczyk <iswso@wioioksi.io> - 2018-11-07 19:35 +0000
                Re: E=mc2 Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-11-08 09:32 +1100
                Re: E=mc2 Gaston Castaneda <agn@j2awdos.nc> - 2018-11-08 21:13 +0000
                Re: E=mc2 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-08 22:26 +0100
                Re: E=mc2 Gaston Castaneda <ucpp@j2adosw.nv> - 2018-11-09 19:46 +0000
                Re: E=mc2 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-10 02:47 +0100
              Re: E=mc2 Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-11-07 00:13 +0100
                Re: E=mc2 Ntowicz Usarczyk <iswso@wioioksi.io> - 2018-11-07 19:38 +0000
      Re: E=mc2 benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-11-04 13:17 -0500
        Re: E=mc2 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-04 20:01 +0100
          Re: E=mc2 benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-11-04 14:38 -0500
            Re: E=mc2 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-04 20:53 +0100
              Re: E=mc2 benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-11-04 18:01 -0500
                Re: E=mc2 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-05 01:58 +0100
                Re: E=mc2 benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-11-04 22:59 -0500
                Re: E=mc2 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-05 05:39 +0100
                Re: E=mc2 Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-11-05 07:54 +0100
                Re: E=mc2 Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-11-05 22:33 -0600
                Re: E=mc2 Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-11-06 06:27 +0100
                Re: E=mc2 Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-11-06 06:28 +0100
                Re: E=mc2 mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-11-04 23:28 -0800
            Re: E=mc2 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-04 22:14 +0000
              Re: E=mc2 benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-11-04 18:05 -0500
                Re: E=mc2 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-05 02:02 +0100
                Re: E=mc2 benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-11-04 22:59 -0500
                Re: E=mc2 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-05 05:51 +0100
                Re: E=mc2 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-05 03:00 +0000
                Re: E=mc2 benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-11-04 23:15 -0500
                Re: E=mc2 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-05 12:59 +0000
          Re: E=mc2 Buck Dehner <uktea@yswdoiz.cp> - 2018-11-05 21:00 +0000
            Re: E=mc2 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-13 15:38 +0100
              Re: E=mc2 Gaston Castaneda <uucp@jav4ow.nq> - 2018-11-13 20:22 +0000
                Re: E=mc2 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-13 23:09 +0100
                Re: E=mc2 Shon Wible <shwn@shouwe.wh> - 2018-11-14 15:53 +0000
        Re: E=mc2 Buck Dehner <uktoa@yswdoez.cb> - 2018-11-05 20:54 +0000
        Re: E=mc2 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-11-07 22:35 -0800
        Re: E=mc2 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-11-07 22:44 -0800
          Re: E=mc2 "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-11-08 06:34 -0800
      Re: E=mc2 Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-11-05 12:21 +1100
        Re: E=mc2 benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-11-04 23:12 -0500
          Re: E=mc2 Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-11-05 16:30 +1100
  Re: E=mc2 Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-11-02 16:48 -0700
    Re: E=mc2 mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-11-02 19:07 -0700
    Re: E=mc2 Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-11-08 08:48 +0100

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