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Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ??

From Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ??
Date 2018-09-01 20:04 +0000
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <pmercf$14hl$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References <2b189f54-b41e-4f11-8ddd-b04ac072595a@googlegroups.com> <pmeb9u$9eb$1@gioia.aioe.org> <fbnlodll0gpbas5lnotb2ifvb3goqj14qt@4ax.com>

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Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> wrote:
> fOn Sat, 1 Sep 2018 15:30:06 +0000 (UTC), Odd Bodkin wrote:
> 
>> <poraty149@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> What is more basic 
>>> 
>>> Energy 
>>> or mass ??
>>> ======
>>> TIA
>>> Y.Porat
>>> ==========================
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> Energy. 
>> 
>> Our ARBITRARY choice of base dimensions is a historical accident. Humans
>> just didn’t understand how central energy was before they set up units for
>> length, time, and mass. Had we known then what we know now, energy would
>> have been one of the fundamental dimensions and mass and length and time
>> would have been defined in term of that. 
> 
> I get that energy could be a base unit instead of mass, but wouldn't
> length and time still be base units?

Certainly not both. Length or time is all that’s needed at best as that’s
what’s set up now. 

> 
> One of the problems with the base unit for mass is that it references
> a lump of metal in a locked vault.

And that is being phased out in terms of Avogadro’s number, in the same way
that the standard of length is defined by the standard of time and a
fundamental constant, which functionally serves as a conversion factor in
exactly the same way that 2.54cm=1in. 

> 
> Time and length can be related to a portable standard based on light
> of known wavelength.
> 
> How would an energy standard be more portable than the lump of metal
> that is the mass standard?

One can define, for example anything that serves as a highly stable carrier
of energy -  rest energy of one mole of protons, perhaps. 

I think the day and age of having a stored physical artifact that
represents a standard unit, like an iridium meter bar or a kilogram ball,
are passing quickly in terms of standards based on physical constants. 

> 
> 
>> You make the mistake of believing that the way you were taught is the
>> physically natural way of thinking rather than the by product of historical
>> accident and arbitrary choices. 
>> 
>> You know why we have seconds at all? Because Sumerians 6000 years ago were
>> fascinated by the numbers 12 and 60. No other reason. 
> 
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Thread

WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY -  OR  MASS ?? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-09-01 06:54 -0700
  Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-01 15:30 +0000
    Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-09-01 11:38 -0400
      Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-01 15:50 +0000
        Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-09-01 12:09 -0400
          Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-01 16:34 +0000
            Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-09-01 11:21 -0700
      Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-09-01 11:04 -0700
    Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2018-09-01 14:48 -0400
      Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-01 20:04 +0000
  Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY -  OR  MASS ?? Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2018-09-01 15:00 -0700
    Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY -  OR  MASS ?? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-09-01 19:17 -0700
      Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-02 02:27 +0000
        Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-09-02 02:28 -0700
          Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-09-02 19:57 +1000
            Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-09-02 06:26 -0700
              Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-02 13:39 +0000
                Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2018-09-02 10:45 -0400
                Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-09-02 12:17 -0400
                Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-02 18:57 +0000
              Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-09-03 08:41 +1000
                Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-02 15:48 -0700
                Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-09-02 20:10 -0700
                Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2018-09-03 11:51 -0700
                Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-09-03 17:49 -0700
                Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-09-03 22:47 -0700
                Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2018-09-04 13:06 -0700
                Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-09-04 13:11 -0700
                Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-09-04 21:32 -0700
          Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-02 13:19 +0000
            Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-09-02 06:40 -0700
              Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-09-02 07:19 -0700
                Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-09-02 12:18 -0400
              Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-02 18:57 +0000
            Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-09-02 12:20 -0400
              Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-09-02 11:45 -0700
              Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-02 18:57 +0000
  Re: WHAT IS MORE BASIC ? ! - ENERGY - OR MASS ?? Horatio Trollmeister <invalid@example.com> - 2018-09-01 15:46 -0700

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