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Re: What is a particle?

From moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Re: What is a particle?
Date 2018-08-02 20:42 +0000
Organization The World : www.TheWorld.com : Since 1989
Message-ID <pjvqba$9c0$1@pcls7.std.com> (permalink)
References (26 earlier) <pjv6mf$n4e$2@pcls7.std.com> <27a92e70-6952-4e0b-8b0c-f14e931f3954@googlegroups.com> <72348bbd-c3cf-4ce6-ba8a-b7ac43717f9a@googlegroups.com> <pjvedk$42n$1@pcls7.std.com> <5bdfd57d-341c-49d6-bc56-2a15f1f61465@googlegroups.com>

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john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>MM
>"But you go back to the electron being a little ball and somehow consider
>your belief to be evidence we're wrong and say something dumb like
>"I thought it was 'fundamental'". "
>Hmm.
>Your model started with the electron being fundamental.

It sure appears that that is true.

>Then when you couldn't figure out what's happening with Benzene,

That wasn't me. That was chemists before Kekule.

> you needed it to delocalize

Actually delocalization falls right out of adding the wave functions of
more than two atoms in a molecule. The wave functions just add, and 
produce a new wave function that amounts to delocalization. Cool.
The delocalization can be viewed as an extended wave function/probability
function.

> and then when you still couldn't process it having a route, you needed 
>it to distribute itself.

Nope, we know from HUP that you cannot know both the position and momentum
of an electron (or anything else) to more than a certain accuracy. That
rules out simple "routes" like your retarded spinny things have.

>And now it's just a probability function.

With HUP that's about the best you're going to see with electron-sized
things. You can't know for certain where it is given limits on the
momentum. But you can play dice on where you can find it (sorry,
Einstein).

>So you think everything is math, and there is no physical form?

It seems the more and more we dig, the more and more physics looks like
math. For example: The particle zoo --> the Eightfold Way (+decuplet) --> 
quark theory --> SU(3)/SU(n). SU(n) groups are almost all pure math.

>Wrong, Michael

I don't get to tell Mother Nature what to do, and I really don't believe
you get to tell her, either. She does what she wants to. Scientists try to
convince Mother Nature to tell them what she is up to.

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Thread

What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-07-25 16:02 -0700
  Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-25 23:34 +0000
  Re: What is a particle? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-07-25 19:28 -0700
  Re: What is a particle? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-07-25 21:47 -0500
    Re: What is a particle? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-07-25 22:08 -0700
    Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-07-26 09:52 -0400
      Re: What is a particle? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-07-26 09:28 -0500
        Re: What is a particle? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-07-26 12:47 -0700
          Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-07-26 13:30 -0700
            Re: What is a particle? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-26 21:27 +0000
            Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 01:03 +0000
              Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-07-26 18:25 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-07-26 18:41 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 02:02 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-07-26 19:33 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 01:41 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-27 02:56 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-07-26 20:10 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-07-28 16:42 -0500
                Re: What is a particle? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-07-28 14:53 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-07-28 23:15 -0500
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-07-29 05:29 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-29 12:36 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-07-29 05:44 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-07-29 06:03 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-07-29 06:14 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-07-29 06:48 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-07-29 08:32 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-29 19:11 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-29 19:32 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-29 18:59 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? Wayne Dial <ulau@dvbpdn.dv> - 2018-07-29 19:37 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-07-30 06:41 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-07-30 07:51 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-30 15:41 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-07-30 09:45 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-07-31 10:14 -0500
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-07-31 11:56 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-07-30 10:42 -0500
                Re: What is a particle? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-30 16:59 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-29 19:32 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-29 18:50 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? Wayne Dial <ulau@dvbpdn.dv> - 2018-07-29 19:42 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-07-29 12:57 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-30 17:04 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-07-30 10:18 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-30 17:25 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-07-30 16:15 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-31 00:26 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-07-31 05:17 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-31 12:41 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-31 13:37 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-07-31 07:13 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 00:41 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-01 01:04 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 04:48 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 12:04 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 05:37 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 13:01 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 06:13 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 14:58 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 08:33 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 18:37 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-01 13:44 -0500
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 15:12 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2018-08-01 15:51 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 16:11 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-01 15:13 -0500
                Re: What is a particle? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-01 21:06 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-01 17:18 -0500
                Re: What is a particle? Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 10:55 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-03 19:11 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-04 18:22 -0500
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 19:54 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 10:55 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 15:02 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 21:05 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 14:59 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 21:05 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 20:05 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 01:38 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 18:55 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 03:17 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 01:36 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 01:04 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 09:41 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 10:37 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 07:42 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-02 15:06 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 08:34 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 09:52 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-02 17:18 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 10:50 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-02 20:42 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 16:12 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 00:16 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 20:51 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 13:48 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 07:27 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 15:22 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 08:30 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 17:30 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 14:06 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 13:56 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 18:14 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 15:16 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 20:41 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-04 02:51 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-04 14:22 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-04 12:29 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-04 13:55 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 10:38 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-02 22:51 -0500
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 22:25 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-04 20:11 -0500
                Re: What is a particle? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-05 01:24 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-02 23:32 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-02 23:36 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 06:25 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 06:23 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 13:48 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 13:46 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 18:14 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 15:09 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 13:48 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 00:16 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 01:34 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 09:25 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 10:33 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-02 15:00 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 16:08 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-02 20:52 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 00:16 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 20:57 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 13:09 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 13:33 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 18:13 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 15:07 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 20:41 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 13:48 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 13:45 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 18:14 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 15:07 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 20:41 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-03 20:17 -0500
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 00:16 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-02 17:34 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 21:04 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 18:38 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 22:54 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 20:26 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-03 12:25 -0500
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 21:03 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 13:48 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-03 14:00 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-01 00:54 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? Wayne Dial <ulau@dvbpdn.dv> - 2018-07-30 19:15 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-01 00:59 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-29 19:32 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-29 17:55 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-07-29 13:20 -0500
                Re: What is a particle? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-07-29 18:47 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-07-28 18:15 -0400
                Re: What is a particle? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-07-28 15:25 -0700
          Re: What is a particle? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-07-26 15:38 -0500
            Re: What is a particle? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-07-26 14:13 -0700
              Re: What is a particle? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-07-28 11:39 -0500
  Re: What is a particle? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-07-26 00:08 -0700
    Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-07-26 05:50 -0700
      Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-26 13:41 +0000
        Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-07-26 06:54 -0700
          Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-26 14:14 +0000
            Re: What is a particle? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-07-28 11:41 -0500
              Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-07-28 10:48 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-28 18:42 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-07-28 12:44 -0700
                Re: What is a particle? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-07-28 19:54 +0000
                Re: What is a particle? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-07-28 15:29 -0500

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