Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #462773
Re: Why does gravity have to be transmitted through particles when gravity isn't a force in general relativity?

From	Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: Why does gravity have to be transmitted through particles when gravity isn't a force in general relativity?
Date	2018-06-27 14:40 +0000
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<ph07k2$1793$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(16 earlier) <caf0cbad-00b2-4f30-a2fd-c529e19575cd@googlegroups.com> <pgtijt$pk8$1@gioia.aioe.org> <b78bfa03-1075-4cfd-abb1-f1d5ddc4cf02@googlegroups.com> <pgupr7$r17$1@gioia.aioe.org> <478940fa-6b4d-4e67-a0c4-ff1f5eb73b2b@googlegroups.com>
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kenseto <setoken@att.net> wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 26, 2018 at 9:38:52 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, June 26, 2018 at 10:29:22 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, June 25, 2018 at 4:44:44 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, June 25, 2018 at 10:07:35 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>>>>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, June 24, 2018 at 9:17:56 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, June 23, 2018 at 10:33:47 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 12:12:03 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 8:59:37 AM UTC-5, kenseto wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey moron, why the CF force is not real when I can feel it? BTW what is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reason for claiming that the CF force is not real and only the CP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> force is real. BTW your fanatical religious explanation--that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> textbooks say so--is not acceptable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you take a look at Paul's demo, you will see that "centrifugal force"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DOES NOT BEHAVE AT ALL LIKE A TRUE FORCE in directions other than dropping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an object straight down.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://paulba.no/Spaceship.html 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You may need to install the Java Runtime on your computer, if you don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have it already.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://java.com/en/download/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And Ken, in plainer language that doesn’t involve skills you obviously
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t have, the main lesson is that when you say you feel the centrifugal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> force, that is in fact a trick of the mind and is wrong. This and other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples are discussed in the basic textbooks that you have chosen not to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read. Here are similar examples, all discussed in basic books, and all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> erroneous illusions. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moron, what I feel is real. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well just keep telling yourself that and keep saying every book in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> planet is wrong if it disagrees with your personal common sense. I love it
>>>>>>>>>>>> when you do that. 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Moron and uneducated woodworker, no matter what book or who claims
>>>>>>>>>>> it.....the idea that there is no CF acceleration is  completely wrong.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> And that, Ken, is why you have lost the ability to think and to learn. It
>>>>>>>>>> doesn’t matter to you if the entire world says you’re wrong, you say you’re
>>>>>>>>>> right. You cannot EVER accept the idea you might just be mistaken. It’s a
>>>>>>>>>> character flaw, and a deep and crippling one. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> No moron, current physics is liken a cult and ODD is a devoted cult
>>>>>>>>> member. What the teachings of the cult are the absolute truth and cannot
>>>>>>>>> be challenged. There is no centrifugal force (centrifugal acceleration)
>>>>>>>>> is an example of such cult teaching. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I refuse to accept such cult teachings because:
>>>>>>>>> 1. I can feel the CF force every time I take a ride in the amusement park.
>>>>>>>>> 2. There are thousands of applications using the concept of CF
>>>>>>>>> force.....for example: centrifuges to separate material of different
>>>>>>>>> densities, gas centrifuges to separate U 235 from U 238....etc. 
>>>>>>>>> 3. I am a rational human being....not a physics cult member. Therefore, I
>>>>>>>>> don’t believe in such cult teaching.
>>>>>>>>> 4. I asked cult member ODD to explain why that there is no centrifugal
>>>>>>>>> force (acceleration)....no explanation was provided.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> So, Ken, you say that because you are a thinking human being with sensory
>>>>>>>> experience, you have no need to learn even basics physics, even if the
>>>>>>>> conclusions you draw from your thinking and experience are dead wrong. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Moron, my experiences are not wrong. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yes they ARE. This is SPECIFICALLY why these examples are called out in
>>>>>> textbooks, as I mentioned. Because the way people describe their sensations
>>>>>> is WRONG and does not match the real explanation. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Deny these hundreds of textbooks until the day you die. Insist that your
>>>>>> experience is right until the day you die. You are all alone, claiming that
>>>>>> the books are all wrong about these simple explanations. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> When I am on a Merry-go-Round it is trying to throw me of it and I do
>>>>>>> feel the centrifugal motion. It is you and your SR fanatics who failed to
>>>>>>> understand the fundamental of physics. Also you failed to remember that
>>>>>>> if your theory contradicts observations or experience 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There is NOTHING in science that says if a theory runs counter to everyday
>>>>>> experience then it is wrong. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The assertion that there is no CF force not only runs counter to everyday
>>>>> experience. It also runs against actual experiments.
>>>> 
>>>> No it does not. The only thing that varies is the explanation of what
>>>> caused the results. Newtonian physics (without CF) explains all the
>>>> observable results in the experiments you have in mind. 
>>>> 
>>>> As an illustration of this, designers of centrifuges explain their
>>>> operation completely without invoking centrifugal force. Therefore the
>>>> assertion that there is no real CF is NOT counter to the operational
>>>> principles, as the explanation does not require it. 
>>> 
>>> Here’s Beckman’s description of a centrifuge operation:
>>> "We believe you’ll be a better centrifuge operator if you understand why
>>> separations can be made using centrifugal force. You should always
>>> reference your user manual for directions on how to operate the centrifuge in your lab.”
>>> 
>>> It appears that you made unsupported assertion as always. You are a dick-head.
>> 
>> Ken, your research skills are astoundingly bad. 
>> Here’s something simple for you. 
>> https://www.explainthatstuff.com/centrifuges.html
>> Where it says the following:
>> ————————
>> In popular books and magazines, people talk about something called
>> centrifugal force: the force that seems to make things shoot outward when
>> they go round in a circle. So, when a bus goes around a bend at high speed,
>> you'll read that it's centrifugal force trying to tip the thing over. When
>> your clothes are spinning in the drum, it's centrifugal force that throws
>> the water out through the little holes so your washing ends up much drier.
>> 
>> Or is it?
>> 
>> Science teachers will tell you this is wrong: there is actually no such
>> thing as centrifugal force. We can understand what's really happening by
>> considering Isaac Newton's famous laws of motion. When a car begins to
>> enter a bend, its natural tendency is to keep going in a straight line—and
>> it will do so unless a force acts on it. When it follows the bend, it does
>> so because there's a force (called centripetal force) constantly tugging it
>> inward from its straight line course. What we see as the centrifugal force
>> is really the car's tendency to go straight, if left to its own devices.
>> 
>> Anytime you're watching something turning round a curve and you're
>> wondering about centrifugal force, you can quietly translate what you're
>> seeing into centripetal force. So "centrifugal force gets your washing dry
>> because it makes the water fly out" becomes "Centripetal force between your
>> clothes and the inside of the drum pushes them around in a circle. There's
>> nothing to give the water the same kind of push because it can slip
>> straight through the drum holes. The clothes experience centripetal force,
>> the water doesn't. The clothes go round in a circle, the water goes in a
>> straight line—straight through the holes. And that's what gets your washing
>> dry.”
> 
> This is simply not truth.  

Again, I will point out that, as you are uneducated in physics, it is
foolishly arrogant for you to insist that the educated experts are all
wrong. It’s a really stupid thing for you to do, Ken, and I’m not surprised
that nobody takes you seriously. 

> The clothes and water in the clothes experience the centrifugal force,
> the washer tub prevents the clothes from going through the holes in the
> tub whereas the water is able to go though the holes and that’s what gets
> the washing dry. Learn some real physics instead of making assertions.
> The centripetal force does not involve in this drying process....IOW the
> CP force is a fictitious force.
> 
>> 
>> Confused? Don't be! It's this simple: if something is moving in a circle,
>> there must be a force acting on it somewhere to make it turn, otherwise it
>> would go in a straight line. 
> 
> Yes, the CF force make it turn and the result is driving the water out of the clothes.
> 
>> So look at the situation carefully and figure
>> out where the inward pushing or pulling force is coming from. That's the
>> centripetal force. If some part of the object is flying outward, that's not
>> because there's centrifugal force: it's because there's no centripetal
>> force to make it go in a circle.
>> 
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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