Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #460614
Re: Why does gravity have to be transmitted through particles when gravity isn't a force in general relativity?

From	Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: Why does gravity have to be transmitted through particles when gravity isn't a force in general relativity?
Date	2018-06-07 17:51 +0000
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<pfbrbt$1hpo$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(14 earlier) <46eae83e-3a45-400f-a5a5-391585d8224b@googlegroups.com> <pf9k94$1ufg$1@gioia.aioe.org> <692d644c-7156-48c4-bc4d-a0880023b94b@googlegroups.com> <pfbla2$16lk$2@gioia.aioe.org> <c9e1799e-f8b9-4734-8c55-897cd86e41cf@googlegroups.com>
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kenseto <setoken@att.net> wrote:
> On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 12:08:38 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 5:38:49 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 10:30:21 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 8:45:27 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>>>>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 7:10:01 PM UTC-4, Volney wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/5/2018 5:12 PM, kenseto wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 12:05:47 PM UTC-4, Volney wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/5/2018 11:22 AM, kenseto wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 12:16:28 AM UTC-4, Volney wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2018 7:31 PM, kenseto wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 6, 2018 at 12:34:42 PM UTC-4, rotchm wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, May 6, 2018 at 10:24:34 AM UTC-4, kenseto wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If there is only attractive force then the system is not stable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Handwaving. Can you back that up with a proof?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Newton proved that with only an attractive force, there are stable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solutions. can you then show where he made an error in his proof?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A satellite must have Centripetal acceleration toward the center of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> earth....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's called "gravity".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in addition it must also have tangential acceleration away from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> center of the earth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can it be tangential if it's away from the center of the earth?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Make up your mind. Is it tangential or is it away from the center of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> earth?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The combination of these accelerations will give stable orbit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Newton combined these two accelerations and call it gravity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wrong. Newton only had gravity. Read his works if you don't believe me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Tangential acceleration away from the center of the earth" is babbling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nonsense, which Newton didn't use.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sigh Newton’s gravity is a composite force.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> WRONG! Newton's gravity is F = GMm/r^2. Notice how there is a single
>>>>>>>>>>>> term on the right side? There is no "+" symbol to indicate where two
>>>>>>>>>>>> forces are added, nor a "-" symbol where two forces are subtracted. ONE
>>>>>>>>>>>> TERM, and definitely NOT a composite force.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hey idiot....if Newton gravity is not a composite force the moon will
>>>>>>>>>>> not be maintain a table orbit. Gee you are stupid.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Ken, for the millionth time, Newton PROVED that only a single force 
>>>>>>>>>> (gravity) was needed for a stable orbit. You have not disproved his 
>>>>>>>>>> proof, all you can do is assert that there must be a composite force.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> For the billions of time, Newton’s gravity force is not  single force. It
>>>>>>>>> is a composite force, that’s why the moon is able to maintain a stable orbit.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Either PROVE Newton wrong (and get a ticket to Sweden!) or admit that 
>>>>>>>>>> you are wrong. Of course, you'll do neither, just falsely claim that 
>>>>>>>>>> there is a composite force causing the moon to orbit.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I didn’t say that Newton was wrong. I said that he didn’t know that his
>>>>>>>>> gravity force is composed of an attractive EM force and a repulsive
>>>>>>>>> effect between the earth and the moon.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My theory provides a mechanical explanation of gravity.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Where do you show your theory as falsifiable? Where is your experimental
>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> My theory is falsifiable if the experiments I proposed failed to
>>>>>>>>>>> find absolute motion.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> So no experiments have been done yet? So all you have is a hypothesis?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.The tangential acceleration is caused by the centrifugal force
>>>>>>>>>>>>> exerts on the orbiting object.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh good grief. You are getting wronger and wronger. The centrifugal
>>>>>>>>>>>> (pseudo)force is OUTWARD, AWAY from the center. You yourself commented
>>>>>>>>>>>> about being thrown off a merry-go-round by the centrifugal force.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hey idiot, the centrifugal force is not (pseudo) in my theory.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Well, your theory is wrong, then!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Can you explain why centrifugal force is (pseudo)? Don't just make assertion.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> It causes tangential acceleration for a satellite and that’s why it is
>>>>>>>>>>> able to maintain a stable orbit around the earth.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> What? Tangential acceleration? The moon is orbiting the earth faster and 
>>>>>>>>>> faster??? I thought it was a constant ~29.5 days!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> No idiot...tangential acceleration is what causes the moon in a circular orbit.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Also if you use the centrifugal pseudoforce to explain how centrifuges
>>>>>>>>>>>> work, they work because the centrifugal force forces the dense/heavy
>>>>>>>>>>>> matter OUTWARD and the lighter/less dense matter gets displaced inward.
>>>>>>>>>>>> NOT TANGENTIALLY.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hey moron....not just OUTWARD also a circular motion around the center of
>>>>>>>>>>> rotation.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Not outward. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> No not just outward, the moon must also experiencing a tangential
>>>>>>>>> acceleration to maintain a stable orbit.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> There are a zillion Youtube videos of amusement park rides with names 
>>>>>>>>>> like the Gravitron or Roundup that are basically centrifuges with people 
>>>>>>>>>> forced against the wall. They are forced against the wall, they don't 
>>>>>>>>>> slide around the inside faster and faster!!!
>>>>>>>>>> Here is just one video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0H7TYzcMaY
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Some of them tilt so that the riders are upside down for part of the 
>>>>>>>>>> ride (forced UPWARD).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> So you agree that it is the centrifugal force that forces the person
>>>>>>>>> against the wall....right?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. The centripetal acceleration is caused by the attractive EM force
>>>>>>>>>>>>> derived from the earth and the moon are expanding in the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>> direction as the universe expands.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Gibberish nonsense. In the earth moon system the centripetal force and
>>>>>>>>>>>> gravity are one and the same.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> What you said is gibberish nonsense. Centripetal force without the
>>>>>>>>>>> centrifugal force will not be able to maintain a stable orbit.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Wrong, Newton PROVED mathematically that only centripetal force 
>>>>>>>>>> (gravity) was necessary. What have you proved? Nothing?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> For the zillions of time....Newton’s gravity is not a single force.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Well then, you’re saying he’s wrong, because he said it was.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Idiot, he did’t know what causes gravity
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Correct
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> and he didn’t say that gravity is a single force. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yes he did. Read what he wrote. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Can you provide a quote by Newton that says that gravity is a single force?
>>>> 
>>>> https://books.google.com/books/about/Newton_s_Principia.html?id=N-hHAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button
>>>> 
>>>> Can you prove you can read more than one sentence in a row? 
>>> 
>>> Moron I asked you to provide a quote....not a whole book for me to hunt
>>> for a quote that Newton said that gravity is a single force.
>> 
>> Yes you asked for a quote. Real men read. They don’t ask other grown-ups to
>> do the reading for them and provide a quick pre-chewed nugget. 
> 
> Moron, you claimed that Newton said that only one force is required for
> the moon to maintain a stable orbit. 

Yes, and my claim is substantiated by what he actually wrote. Which a lot
of people have read, and you have not. Your inability to read is not
anyone’s problem. 


> So I asked you to provide an exact that Newton said that. If you don’t
> want to or not capable of doing that....then fuck off and don’t reply to my posts.

Ken, you’re going to find that nobody wants to do what you want them to do.
They’re not going to buy your book, they’re not even going to read your
book. They’re not going to waste time teaching you basics while you argue
stupidities. They’re not going to support your ideas or waste time telling
you what’s wrong with your ideas. They’re not going to find quotes for you
in things you won’t read for yourself. 

The ONLY reason I respond to you at all is to expose your complete
incompetence in front of the readership here. And I’m going to make it
clear that your entire reason for posting here is that arguing with people
on subjects you know nothing about is how you stave off terminal loneliness
and irrelevance. 

And so I’m going to KEEP replying to your posts, because what I say pisses
you off. If you don’t like what I say to you, then don’t reply to me. Or at
least try. 

> 
>> 
>> Here’s the message on that: for weeks now you have been making claims about
>> what Newton said and did not say, and you’ve been making those claims
>> without having ANY IDEA what he said or didn’t say. And when pressed, you
>> now ask what he in fact did say, and STILL you do not want to read what he
>> said. You are acting like an invalid who can’t do a damn thing for
>> yourself, and then you complain when people don’t do what you want. 
>> 
>> Don’t make claims about what you don’t know!
>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Lets look at how they launch a satellite:
>>>> 
>>>> Don’t rely on your common sense! That’s not how to understand physics, you
>>>> idiot!! That doesn’t work!
>>> 
>>> Moron, I didn’t rely on common sense. I rely on facts how they launch a satellite
>>>> 
>>>>> 1. They apply a vertical rocket force to left the satellite to a desired height.
>>>>> 2. When the satellite reached the desired height they turn the rocket to
>>>>> a tangential direction and apply a force to cause the satellite to follow
>>>>> an accelerated tangential orbital motion. 
>>>>> 3. See there are two forces involved in launching a satellite!!!
>>> 
>>> No comment on these facts?
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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