Re: Good C compiler for WIN64

From	David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Good C compiler for WIN64
Date	2018-02-09 15:24 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<p5kavf$rh$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <CrXeC.576756$eO2.362944@fx34.am4> <p5hjos$49a$1@dont-email.me> <Y5udnaNXkqzjEOHHnZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com> <p5jpu3$anu$1@dont-email.me> <00ffC.556298$5k2.137820@fx12.am4>

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On 09/02/18 11:48, bartc wrote:
> 
>> tdm is a packaging of mingw or mingw-w64 toolchains, aimed at being as
>> easy as possible to install.
> 
> That suggests that installing mingw wasn't quite as simple as you
> suggested. Otherwise why go to the bother of creating tdm?

The world is not black and white - nor is installation divided into
"mind-numbingly simple even for absolute newbies" and "impossibly
difficult unless you are a Linux geek".  It is perfectly reasonable to
say that installing mingw-w64 is straightforward and not difficult,
while also saying that installing tdm is probably even easier.

> 
> It seems to be the aim of these tools from Linux to be as obscure as
> possible.

Yes, I am sure that is their aim.  The folks being these projects (which
are not, as you well know, "tools from Linux") came up with a cunning
business plan:

1. Lets make some software that is as difficult as possible to use.
2. ?
3. Profit !

> 
> I'm still, after several years, unsure of what mingw is actually meant
> to be. Apparently it's a minimalistic toolchain, which leaves one
> wondering what a non-minimalist one might look like.

You are unsure of a great deal of things in the C world.  Informing you
doesn't see to help, so I'm not going to bother.  Try google.

> 
> So it includes a C compiler, but is it meant to also include the
> necessary include files? Assembler? Linker? Import libraries? Actual
> Libraries?

Yes - it is a toolchain.

> 
> What are cygwin and Msys and Msys2, and why are they considered so
> important to some?

I believe that has already been explained.

> 
> Even the simpler tdm includes a directory called:
> 
>     ./x86_64-w64-mingw32
> 
> Which surely wasn't chosen to be easy to type or to remember. "64"
> occurs twice. It uses both "_" and "-" separators. "w" occurs twice. It
> has "32" even though both 32- and 64-bit targets are supported.

"x86_64" is the target processor architecture, "w64" is the "vendor"
(abbreviation for mingw-w64 in this case), and "mingw32" is the "os"
(i.e., windows).  So that directory covers files needed for compiling
for windows files with mingw-w64 toolchain, targeting 64-bit x86
processors.  When you are used to simple C compilers that are always
native (identical host and target), this kind of flexibility may seem
unnecessary.  But remember, gcc is /not/ a simple limited native C
compiler.  mingw-w64 tools and libraries are available for all sorts of
systems - if you want, you can use it on an ARM-based Raspberry Pi
running Linux to cross-compile for x86 (32-bit or 64-bit) Windows.
(Installation is /really/ scary - "apt-get install mingw-w64").  And
these name "triplets" are used in general for gcc for any mix of host
and target systems - the one I use most has "arm-none-eabi" as its triplet.

> 
> This is why smaller, self-contained products such as Pelles C, lccwin,
> the old DMC, and also Tiny C are important. Created by individuals, it
> gives them a human touch.

I couldn't care less about a "human touch" in a compiler or its
associated libraries, headers, utilities, etc.  I like a "human touch"
in the support, and being able to talk to people involved in the
development or support.  I don't want to be "friends" with my compiler,
any more than I want to be friends with my car - they are tools.  I want
a "human touch" from the folks selling me a car, or the repairing it -
not from the car itself.  I want to understand how to /use/ my car, and
how to get the best out of it - I am not particularly interested in how
it works, or how many different parts there are under the bonnet.

> 
>> Personally, I write most gui stuff with Python these days.
> 
> Which library? There seem to be loads.
> 

Mostly wxPython, but I've used Tkinter a little.  I don't do a great
deal of gui programming.

Thread

Good C compiler for WIN64 shinobi@f153.n1.z21.fsxnet (shinobi) - 2018-02-07 11:14 +1200
  Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-07 14:04 +0100
    Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-02-07 09:52 -0800
      Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-07 18:24 +0000
    Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 shinobi@f153.n1.z21.fsxnet (shinobi) - 2018-02-07 16:10 +1200
    Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-07 13:48 +0000
      Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-02-08 01:41 -0600
    Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-02-08 01:44 -0600
  Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2018-02-07 21:18 +0100
    Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 shinobi@f153.n1.z21.fsxnet (shinobi) - 2018-02-08 08:22 +1200
      Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-08 10:40 +0000
  Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2018-02-08 00:06 +0800
    Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 shinobi@f153.n1.z21.fsxnet (shinobi) - 2018-02-08 08:21 +1200
      Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-08 10:36 +0000
        Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-02-08 03:49 -0800
  Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Robbie Hatley <loneSNIPwolf@wellCUT.com> - 2018-02-08 03:22 -0800
    Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-02-08 04:05 -0800
    Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-08 12:32 +0000
      Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-08 12:40 +0000
      Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-08 14:36 +0100
        Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Robbie Hatley <loneSNIPwolf@wellCUT.com> - 2018-02-08 09:47 -0800
          Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-02-08 10:33 -0800
          Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-09 10:33 +0100
            Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-09 10:48 +0000
              Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-09 11:18 +0000
              Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-09 15:24 +0100
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-10 12:56 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-10 15:44 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-10 16:13 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-10 17:36 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-10 18:15 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-10 18:27 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-10 18:42 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-10 20:03 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-10 20:23 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-10 20:58 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-10 21:13 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-10 21:40 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-10 22:22 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-10 23:39 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-11 01:07 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-11 01:23 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-11 01:38 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-11 01:42 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-11 10:58 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-02-11 03:17 -0800
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-11 11:33 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-11 14:21 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-11 15:05 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-11 17:08 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-12 22:32 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-10 18:26 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-10 20:02 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-02-10 14:45 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-02-10 16:42 +0100
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-02-11 08:16 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-02-11 13:48 +0100
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-02-11 15:42 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-02-11 18:44 +0100
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-02-12 15:39 +0000
                Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-11 16:26 +0100
              Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-10 09:50 +1300
      Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-02-08 12:21 -0800
        Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-08 22:52 +0000
          Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-02-09 10:01 -0800
  Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2018-02-08 20:16 +0100
    Re: Good C compiler for WIN64 Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-08 19:58 +0000

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