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Re: Train gedanken - again.

From Kos Etrakis <uar@ksskkwi.ck>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: Train gedanken - again.
Date 2017-09-19 14:48 +0000
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <opraoc$1ven$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References <opr46v$jhn$1@dont-email.me>

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Paul B. Andersen wrote:

> Here is a variant of Einstein's 'train gedanken'.
> 
> Consider the following thought experiment.
> Note what is given, and what is NOT given.
> 
> Can you answer the questions?
> 
> The given scenario:
> - A train is moving at some speed along the railway.
> - Paul is in the middle of the train.
> - Ralph is standing close by the railway.

Invalid already. Your gedanken demands standing ON the railway.

> - At some time, a lightening bolt hits the front
>     end of the train, leaving a mark at the ground.
> - At some time, a lightening bolt hits the aft
>     end of the train, leaving a mark at the ground.
> 
> The observations:
> - At some time, Paul passes Ralph.

See, what I am talking about.

> - At some later time, Ralph sees the flashes
>     from the lightening bolts simultaneously.
> - At some time, Paul sees the flash from the front,
>     and shortly later, he sees the flash from the aft end.

This is exactly where you guys are making mistakes. In order for Ralph to 
see anything, that light/photons has to be DIRECT to him (in space and 
time, and spacetime). The ONE observed by Ralph, is physically impossible 
to be observed by Paul. What hits Paul HAS to be some other light.

People are confusing EVENTS inhere with motion, photons and light. Good 
post, however.

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Thread

Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-19 14:56 +0200
  Train gedanken - again. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-19 06:00 -0700
  Re: Train gedanken - again. Kos Etrakis <uar@ksskkwi.ck> - 2017-09-19 14:48 +0000
    Re: Train gedanken - again. Kos Etrakis <uar@ksskkwi.ck> - 2017-09-19 14:53 +0000
      Re: Train gedanken - again. Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2017-09-19 08:05 -0700
        Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-19 09:09 -0700
          Re: Train gedanken - again. Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2017-09-19 09:35 -0700
            Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-19 10:45 -0700
        Re: Train gedanken - again. Kos Etrakis <uar@ksskkwi.ck> - 2017-09-19 22:01 +0000
          Re: Train gedanken - again. Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2017-09-20 07:30 -0700
            Re: Train gedanken - again. Kos Etrakis <uar@ksskkwi.ck> - 2017-09-20 20:00 +0000
  Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-19 07:55 -0700
    Re: Train gedanken - again. Kos Etrakis <uar@ksskkwi.ck> - 2017-09-19 14:58 +0000
  Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-20 09:18 +1000
    Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-20 04:48 +0200
      Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-20 13:47 +1000
        Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-20 14:33 +0200
          Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-21 09:05 +1000
            Re: Train gedanken - again. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-20 16:07 -0700
            Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-22 01:24 +0200
              Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-22 12:22 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-27 15:28 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-27 15:40 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-29 09:20 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-29 08:49 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-29 12:08 +0000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-29 05:59 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-28 09:22 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-28 03:08 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-27 20:30 -0700
        Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-20 20:42 +0000
          Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-21 08:39 +1000
            Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-21 02:18 +0000
              Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-22 08:25 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-22 01:37 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-22 12:34 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-22 13:30 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-23 06:44 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-10-10 00:24 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-22 03:02 +0000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-23 06:50 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-22 22:23 +0000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-23 10:08 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-23 04:09 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-23 13:32 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-24 09:02 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-24 06:31 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-09-23 19:37 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-24 07:26 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-24 16:44 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-24 08:03 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-24 17:35 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-25 08:26 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-24 17:36 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-09-24 18:24 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-25 07:34 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-25 15:49 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-25 07:56 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-25 00:00 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-25 13:47 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-25 00:47 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-24 23:53 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-25 19:53 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-25 02:58 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-25 13:54 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-09-26 03:15 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-25 10:19 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-25 13:56 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-09-26 03:11 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-25 14:43 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-26 01:26 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-26 02:06 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-27 08:39 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-25 13:52 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-09-26 03:18 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-25 10:21 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-25 13:19 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-25 15:48 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-24 08:31 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-24 17:46 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-24 09:30 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2017-09-24 08:04 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-09-24 08:24 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-23 14:11 +0000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-24 08:53 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-24 02:31 +0000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-24 16:39 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-24 12:34 +0000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-25 08:30 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-24 22:32 +0000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-25 09:41 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-25 02:51 +0000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-25 15:51 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-25 12:48 +0000
    Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-20 11:13 +0200
      Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-20 02:31 -0700
        Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-20 02:34 -0700
          Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-20 03:25 -0700
  Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-19 22:40 -0700
    Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-20 08:08 +0200
      Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-21 08:46 +1000
    Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-20 08:33 +0200
      Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-20 00:04 -0700
      Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-20 00:34 -0700
        Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-20 00:42 -0700
          Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-20 10:54 +0200
            Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-21 08:49 +1000
              Re: Train gedanken - again. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-20 15:59 -0700
              Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-22 01:54 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-22 12:43 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-22 12:56 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-22 11:04 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-23 07:36 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-27 01:38 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-27 20:00 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-27 12:06 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-28 09:30 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-28 03:04 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-21 20:36 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-22 07:21 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-26 21:57 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-26 20:57 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-09-26 21:00 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-27 15:24 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-27 17:39 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-28 02:52 +0200
        Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-20 10:48 +0200
    Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-20 15:13 +0200
  Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-20 20:19 +0200
    Re: Train gedanken - again. Kos Etrakis <uar@ksskkwi.ck> - 2017-09-20 20:02 +0000
    Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-21 09:10 +1000
      Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-21 12:46 +0200
  Re: Train gedanken - again. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-20 13:14 -0700
    Re: Train gedanken - again. mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2017-09-20 13:27 -0700
    Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-21 09:29 +1000
    Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-21 14:03 +0200
      Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-21 05:19 -0700
      Re: Train gedanken - again. Kos Etrakis <uar@ksskkwi.ck> - 2017-09-21 12:42 +0000
      Re: Train gedanken - again. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-21 07:24 -0700
        Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-21 22:16 +0200
          Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-22 08:51 +1000
            Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-22 03:02 +0000
              Re: Train gedanken - again. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-21 20:18 -0700
          Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-21 20:39 -0700
            Re: Train gedanken - again. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-21 20:42 -0700
            Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-22 07:49 +0200
              Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-21 23:51 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-22 09:04 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-22 09:08 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-22 00:27 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-22 11:52 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-22 04:05 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-23 07:46 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-27 12:26 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-28 09:31 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-28 03:01 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-27 20:22 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-28 12:00 +0200
            Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-22 14:08 +0200
              Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-23 07:41 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-27 12:28 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-28 09:32 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-28 03:02 +0200
          Re: Train gedanken - again. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-22 07:03 -0700
            Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-22 19:55 +0200
              Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-23 07:42 +1000
              Re: Train gedanken - again. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-23 06:55 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-24 11:17 +0200
      Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-22 08:30 +1000
        Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-22 13:52 +0200
          Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-22 05:34 -0700
          Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-23 08:05 +1000
            Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-23 15:38 +0200
              Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-24 09:12 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-23 16:17 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-24 11:03 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-24 07:11 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-24 07:38 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-25 08:43 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-25 14:38 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-25 07:15 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-25 07:38 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-09-26 04:20 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-26 01:23 -0700
              Re: Train gedanken - again. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-24 06:48 -0700

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