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Re: Error of % + digits?

From "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp>
Newsgroups sci.electronics.equipment, sci.electronics.basics
Subject Re: Error of % + digits?
Date 2020-08-04 22:27 +0100
Organization X
Message-ID <op.0ougj2jjwdg98l@glass> (permalink)
References (13 earlier) <HoJOG.897349$imF1.670723@fx15.am4> <op.0no09q0awdg98l@glass> <reovmc$gs8$1@reader1.panix.com> <op.0nve3ltpwdg98l@glass> <rf5fgk$2h9$1@reader1.panix.com>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 02:13:56 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

> In sci.electronics.basics Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 08:30:20 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In sci.electronics.equipment Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 20:21:10 +0100, Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/07/20 19:01, Pimpom wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/12/2020 11:15 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 05:23:31 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In sci.electronics.equipment Pimpom <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My mechanical slide caliper has a resolution of 0.001 inch. This
>>>>>>>>> means that it can display measurements with a precision of 1 mil,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What if your caliper had a resolution of 1 mil +/- 3 counts on the last
>>>>>>>> digit?
>>>>>> .....<snip>........
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In America, what is a "mill"?  In the UK, it used to mean a thousandth of an
>>>>>>> inch, but people use it to mean a millimetre nowadays.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not a mill. It's mil - single l. It means, and has always meant, a
>>>>>> thousandth of an inch. It's not an Americanism.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the UK "mill" means millilitre.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want to refer to fractions of an inch, then
>>>>> it is /always/ "thou", i.e. thousandths of an inch.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the UK "mil/mill" /never/ means 0.001".
>>>>
>>>> Yes it does.  My neighbour's a tradesman (in Scotland) and says
>>>> "mill/mil" (I don't know which as they sound the same in speech) as
>>>> shorthand for millimetre.  As in "that kitchen unit is 600 mill wide".
>>>> Since we don't use inches for such things in the UK, there's no
>>>> confusion.
>>>
>>> The context there is key too. While I'd not measure a countertop or
>>> whatever in millimeters, it would make no sense that anything in a kitchen
>>> would be measured thicknesses of paper.
>>>
>>> We (in the US) use "guage" for wire
>>
>> Isn't that really hard to work out?  We use cross sectional area in mm.  Which is really easy to imagine.  With the added bonus that a higher number is thicker.  It's also pretty handy as a rough guide that 1 square mm carries 10 amps.
>
> Not really. If you can only count with your fingers you probably aren't
> building anything impressive to start with. The entire fallacy of "metric
> is easy, base 10, duh" is just bullshit. Check dimensions of anything
> designed by people that don't know what fractions are. There are tons of
> weird numbers like 13.1mm and so forth. It's no different than 1-1/8th
> inches.

Yes it ism because the number system works in 10s.  So if the measurements do too, it's simpler to calculate, especially when you get 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32 inches.  What's 1/4 inch + 1/16?  And even worse, how many feet in 197 inches?

>>> and sheet metal.
>>
>> Seriously?  Wow.  Why would you not measure a thickness in a unit of distance?
>
> The guage for sheet metal is sort of obnoxious. It will vary by type of
> metal as well, if that makes any sense.

It's daft for wiring aswell.  I can immediately visualise what a 6mm^2 cross section of wire is like, and know how much current it will take.

>>> We also use "guage"
>>> for measuring really thin stuff like plastic films. In the last case, it's
>>> a completly different unit, but with proper context won't confuse anybody.
>>
>> We use microns.
>
> how many microns thick is your plastic trash bag?

Not enough.  They've now made them so thin that everybody ends up tearing them or using two or three layers to stop stuff going through them.  Fucking environmentalists.

> The last ones I got were
> speced on the box as "0.7 mil" There's no false sense of precision there,

Mil what?  Millimeters?  Thousands of an inch?

> like with the 610mm countertop or whatever it was.

What's wrong with bags in microns?  It's the correct unit of measurement, as it's thinner than a mm.  You wouldn't drive 17,000 yards, you'd state it in miles.

>>> Question for the metric woodworkers. Does anybody cut a piece of wood to
>>> 317mm or 429mm or other off numbers when building a house or handing a
>>> door or installing a countertop?
>>
>> Depends if something else is in the way.  I'd always try to use round numbers.
>
> Would round be 320mm and 430mm instead of 317 and 429? Do you split in 5mm
> increments too? I'm really curious about this.

Not sure what you're asking here.  If I'm designing something, I'll use round numbers.  I just built a parrot nestbox.  Funnily enough I cut the wood to 30cm, not 25 or 28.

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Thread

Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-06-18 14:03 +0100
  Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-06-18 14:28 +0100
  Re: Error of % + digits? Pimpom <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2020-06-18 20:08 +0530
    Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-06-18 15:41 +0100
      Re: Error of % + digits? Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2020-06-18 18:16 -0400
        Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-06-18 23:48 +0100
          Re: Error of % + digits? Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2020-06-18 19:38 -0400
            Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-06-19 21:46 +0100
              Re: Error of % + digits? Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2020-06-19 18:55 -0400
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-06-19 23:59 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? Pimpom <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2020-06-20 12:09 +0530
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-06-20 13:03 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2020-06-20 11:24 -0400
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-06-20 16:58 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? Pimpom <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2020-06-20 23:28 +0530
                Re: Error of % + digits? Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2020-06-20 14:15 -0400
                Re: Error of % + digits? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2020-06-20 23:54 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2020-06-26 05:10 +0000
                Re: Error of % + digits? Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2020-06-26 11:27 -0400
                Re: Error of % + digits? Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2020-06-27 06:40 +0000
                Re: Error of % + digits? Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2020-06-27 09:55 -0400
                Re: Error of % + digits? Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2020-06-29 02:59 +0000
                Re: Error of % + digits? Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2020-06-29 10:54 -0400
                Re: Error of % + digits? Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2020-06-30 03:28 +0000
                Re: Error of % + digits? Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2020-06-20 20:18 +0200
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-06-24 18:37 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2020-06-26 04:54 +0000
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-11 21:38 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2020-07-13 03:21 +0000
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-13 13:32 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2020-06-26 04:23 +0000
                Re: Error of % + digits? Pimpom <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2020-06-26 14:02 +0530
                Re: Error of % + digits? Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2020-06-27 06:56 +0000
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-12 18:45 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? Pimpom <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2020-07-12 23:31 +0530
                Re: Error of % + digits? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2020-07-12 20:21 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? Pimpom <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2020-07-13 10:23 +0530
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-13 13:36 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? Pimpom <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2020-07-13 20:57 +0530
                Re: Error of % + digits? Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2020-07-13 17:39 +0200
                Re: Error of % + digits? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2020-07-13 21:04 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-20 21:35 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-20 21:36 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? Pimpom <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2020-07-21 12:05 +0530
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-31 23:53 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? Pimpom <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2020-08-01 14:31 +0530
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-13 13:35 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2020-07-16 07:30 +0000
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-17 00:19 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2020-07-21 01:13 +0000
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-08-04 22:27 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2020-09-09 07:39 +0000
                Re: Error of % + digits? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2020-07-17 12:15 +0000
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-28 19:02 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-13 13:38 +0100
      Re: Error of % + digits? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2020-06-24 20:06 +0000
        Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-06-30 00:41 +0100
          Re: Error of % + digits? Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2020-06-30 03:52 +0000
            Re: Error of % + digits? Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2020-06-30 11:09 -0400
              Re: Error of % + digits? Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2020-07-02 05:45 +0000
                Re: Error of % + digits? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2020-07-02 07:03 +0000
                Re: Error of % + digits? Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2020-07-02 10:41 -0400
                Re: Error of % + digits? RheillyPhoull <Rheilly@bigslong.com> - 2020-07-03 09:20 +0800
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-16 20:09 +0100
                Re: Separate amps jacks on multimeters Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2020-07-17 14:02 +0000
                Re: Separate amps jacks on multimeters "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-17 19:16 +0100
                Re: Separate amps jacks on multimeters Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2020-07-17 20:26 +0000
                Re: Separate amps jacks on multimeters "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-17 21:44 +0100
                Re: Separate amps jacks on multimeters Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2020-07-17 22:37 +0000
                Re: Separate amps jacks on multimeters "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-18 00:11 +0100
                Re: Separate amps jacks on multimeters Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2020-07-17 18:07 -0400
                Re: Separate amps jacks on multimeters "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-17 23:31 +0100
                Re: Separate amps jacks on multimeters Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2020-07-17 19:10 -0400
                Re: Separate amps jacks on multimeters "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-18 00:18 +0100
                Re: Separate amps jacks on multimeters Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2020-07-17 19:30 -0400
                Re: Separate amps jacks on multimeters "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-28 22:16 +0100
                Re: Separate amps jacks on multimeters Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2020-07-22 04:24 +0000
                Re: Separate amps jacks on multimeters Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2020-07-22 12:28 -0400
                Re: Separate amps jacks on multimeters Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2020-07-17 19:25 -0400
                Re: Separate amps jacks on multimeters Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2020-07-22 04:20 +0000
                Re: Separate amps jacks on multimeters Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2020-07-22 12:23 -0400
                Re: Error of % + digits? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2020-07-03 13:10 +0000
                Re: Error of % + digits? Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2020-07-03 10:14 -0400
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-16 20:10 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2020-07-16 16:03 -0400
                Re: Error of % + digits? Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 13:13 -0700
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-17 00:02 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2020-07-16 23:29 -0400
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-24 22:09 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2020-07-24 22:58 +0000
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-25 00:31 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-17 00:01 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-16 18:51 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2020-07-26 03:53 +0000
              Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-16 18:45 +0100
                Re: Error of % + digits? Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> - 2020-07-16 15:53 -0400
            Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-16 18:46 +0100
              Re: Error of % + digits? Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 10:54 -0700
                Re: Error of % + digits? "Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> - 2020-07-17 00:15 +0100
              Re: Error of % + digits? Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2020-07-26 04:17 +0000
          Re: Error of % + digits? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2020-06-30 07:59 +0000
  Re: Error of % + digits? Dieter Michel <dmichel@prosound.de> - 2020-06-22 17:19 +0200
  Re: Error of % + digits? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2020-06-24 20:03 +0000

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