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Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate

From Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate
Date 2017-07-05 14:36 -0500
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <ojjf3b$1cl3$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (14 earlier) <ojhntg$vc8$1@pcls7.std.com> <558de6c6-0135-45f1-ab4d-bc6c053b8ea7@googlegroups.com> <ojj7kv$10tp$1@gioia.aioe.org> <daf8e9ef-4932-4dde-9cfc-84fdb7300746@googlegroups.com> <e55b7b66-4275-48fe-9a95-d79fada6fc05@googlegroups.com>

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On 7/5/17 2:13 PM, john wrote:
> Anyway, enough.
> 
> Galaxies are redshifted wrt each other.
> 
> Let me count the reasons. Say 'agree' or 'no':
> 
> 1. Distance
> 2. Velocity
> 3. Energy/intrinsic
> 

I don't know what the third one means to you.

The redshift is due to relative velocity. The observation by Hubble is 
that, overall, velocity is proportional to distance. So you could say 
that redshift happens to be related to distance because of this 
observational fact, but it's not a separate cause of redshift.

Now the fact that the velocity is proportional to distance turns out to 
have a stunning consequence. Let me walk through that with you.

Suppose you have a thing that is 50 light-years away and you observe 
that it is receding from you at 5E-9 c. You can ask the question, how 
long ago was it right nearby, if it's been receding at that rate the 
whole time. That calculation is bonehead simple.

time = distance/velocity
time = 50 light years / 5 billionths light-speed
time = 10 billion years.

Huh, ok, make note of that number.

Now you look and there is another object that is 150 light years away 
and it is receding at 15E-9 c. (Remember, the velocity is observed to be 
proportional to the distance.) So how long ago was it right nearby?

time = distance/velocity
time = 150 light years / 15 billionths light speed
time = 10 billion years.

Son of a gun, same time as before!

Now you look and there is another object that is 200 million light years 
away. By Hubble's observations, it's also receding at 20 million 
billionths of light speed.

time = distance/velocity
time = 200 million light years / 20 million billionths light speed
time = 10 billion years.

SAME TIME AS BEFORE! So 10 billion years ago (in this example) 
everything would have been right nearby, all on top of each other.

This little bit of logical thinking, which starts with Hubble's 
OBSERVATION of velocity and distance being proportional, and clocking 
backwards, is the Big Bang hypothesis. It comes directly from 
OBSERVATION. No escaping that conclusion, no matter how much it 
conflicts with some magical beliefs you have about eternity and things 
remaining always the same.

-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Galaxy and Black Holes Relate "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2017-06-28 20:25 -0700
  Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2017-06-28 22:19 -0700
  Galaxy and Black Holes Relate HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-06-29 05:44 -0700
    Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Graveyard Vandal <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-29 06:08 -0700
  Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2017-06-29 15:24 -0700
    Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-30 02:31 -0700
      Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-30 02:37 -0700
        Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-30 11:36 +0000
        Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-06-30 05:15 -0700
          Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-30 17:50 +0000
            Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-30 15:12 -0700
              Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-01 04:14 +0000
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2017-07-01 01:46 -0400
              Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-07-03 06:10 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-03 11:19 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 15:35 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-03 11:27 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-03 19:13 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-07-04 03:33 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-04 07:39 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-07-04 10:23 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-04 11:07 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-05 02:01 +0000
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-05 01:58 +0000
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-04 20:38 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-05 03:54 +0000
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-04 22:40 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 02:34 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-05 13:05 +0000
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 06:32 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 07:00 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 07:20 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-05 15:09 +0000
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 12:30 -0500
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 16:05 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 08:03 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-05 17:27 +0000
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 12:32 -0500
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 12:29 -0500
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 12:02 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 12:13 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 14:36 -0500
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 16:17 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 14:24 -0500
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 12:27 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 15:58 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 09:34 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2017-07-05 13:06 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 12:20 -0500
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 11:15 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-05 18:31 +0000
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 13:38 -0500
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 14:36 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2017-07-05 15:21 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 16:14 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 09:59 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-06 20:33 +0000
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-07 20:35 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-08 07:17 +0000
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-08 06:16 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-09 01:49 +0000
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-08 18:52 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-09 04:18 +0000
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-09 05:20 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-09 12:56 +0000
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-09 06:32 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-09 17:19 +0000
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-09 10:27 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-07-10 09:57 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-07-08 20:14 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-08 20:22 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-07-09 07:06 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-09 07:19 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-09 07:27 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-09 17:21 +0000
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-09 10:37 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-10 02:06 +0000
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-07-09 08:03 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-07-10 18:15 -0400
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-09 04:15 +0000
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-07-09 12:58 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-07-09 18:26 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-10 01:53 +0000
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-07-09 19:34 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-07-10 09:53 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-07-08 06:18 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-08 12:04 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-08 18:49 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-09 01:58 +0000
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-08 19:12 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-08 19:38 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-09 04:04 +0000
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-07-10 09:49 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-07-07 08:27 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2017-07-07 10:33 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2017-07-07 10:47 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-07-10 07:47 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-10 08:01 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-07-10 10:15 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-10 11:48 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 15:48 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 15:47 -0700
                Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 15:46 -0700
        Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-06-30 06:34 -0700
  Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-07-05 15:09 -0700
    Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 15:11 -0700
      Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2017-07-06 15:22 -0700
  Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2017-07-09 10:33 -0700
    Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2017-07-09 10:46 -0700
    Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2017-07-09 11:14 -0700
      Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2017-07-09 13:33 -0700
    Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-07-09 11:37 -0700
      Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-07-10 18:19 -0400
    Re: Galaxy and Black Holes Relate john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-07-09 12:20 -0700

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