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Re: Scientific method and its applications

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On 6/20/17 7:22 AM, JanPB wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 20, 2017 at 12:51:38 PM UTC+2, mlwo...@wp.pl wrote:
>> W dniu wtorek, 20 czerwca 2017 12:14:24 UTC+2 użytkownik JanPB napisał:
>>> On Tuesday, June 20, 2017 at 8:43:05 AM UTC+2, mlwo...@wp.pl wrote:
>>>> W dniu wtorek, 20 czerwca 2017 00:38:36 UTC+2 użytkownik Odd Bodkin napisał:
>>>>> <mlwozniak@wp.pl> wrote:
>>>>>> W dniu poniedziałek, 19 czerwca 2017 15:00:36 UTC+2 użytkownik Odd Bodkin napisał:
>>>>>>> <mlwozniak@wp.pl> wrote:
>>>>>>>> A physicist applies the scientific methodto persuade
>>>>>>>> (both others and  himself) that his moronic mumble
>>>>>>>> is experimentally confirmed.
>>>>>>>> The  method is very effective.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you think the scientific method is nonsense, and that all scientists are
>>>>>>> corrupt, then why are you here?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To fight nonsense and fix the corruption.
>>>>>> But not "all scientist", of course. It's
>>>>>> just your bunch of idiots in need of your
>>>>>> "scientific method". Other domains didn't
>>>>>> join your anti-common-sense crusade and
>>>>>> common sense is still confirming them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you propose to fix anything? By catcalling? Has that ever worked?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And these scientists who don't use the scientific method, who are they?
>>>>> What do they do?
>>>>
>>>> How did Copernicus falsify geocentrism?
>>>> How did Galileo falsify absolute movement?
>>>> Do historians do much experiments?
>>>>
>>>> For centuries science worked: theoreticians
>>>> made theories, and when common sense said
>>>> "they are reliable" people relied on them.
>>>
>>> That works fine (up to a point(*))
>>
>> Yeah. Up to a point when scientists get insane
>> and start to believe they are holy cows that
>> have to be believed whatever they say.
>> (not all of them, of course - only physicists).
> 
> No, not that. This is a typical strawman argument. Reality is simply that
> just like any other complicated subject (law, brain surgery, etc.) the
> expectation is that in order to provide technical critiques that don't
> immediately fall into the "not even wrong" category (like the one you
> wrote above), a certain amount of knowledge of the subject is a prerequisite.
> 
> The issue we have with your posts (besides their weird language) is that
> you make absolutely MONUMENTAL claims with nothing to back them up except
> a few lines of high-school-level generalities here and there. (Nothing
> wrong with high schools, BTW.) Literally a few lines. And there is simply
> no way that kind of MONUMENTAL claim could be proved by simple juggling
> of certain first principles like "common sense" or "models theory" within
> the space of an ASCII Internet forum paragraph.
> 
> This sort of thing would be easily in the Nobel Prize range and, of course,
> would have been done decades ago. People are not stupid.
> 
> --
> Jan
> 

It's simpler than that. Like a few of the cranks here who try to talk 
physics without having read anything on the subject, Maciej Wozniak 
rejects the expectation of training to understanding. Like the others, 
the desire is that clear thinking and a little intelligence will reveal 
all that is important in ANY subject. This is the plea of the arrogant 
everyman who despises the status of expertise as an intolerable elitism.

And so he earnestly believes that physics (or ANY subject desired) 
should be accessible merely through application of common sense, and he 
MISTAKENLY believes that this is how great leaps in science have been 
done in the past. The opposite is in fact true -- the great leaps of 
science came from observations that completely confounded common sense, 
and that explanations that few AGAINST common sense were needed to 
account for them, and the validation of those counterintuitive ideas 
came with the predictions of then-unobserved phenomena which were then 
confirmed in experiment.

Maciej rejects this in entirety, spewing that if confirmations of 
predictions of counter-intuitive explanations came from experiment, then 
the experiments are tainted and should not be regarded seriously, and 
that ONLY observations that are consistent with common-sense 
explanations should be called valid. That way, common sense is protected 
for the sake of the non-expert everyman.

And he likes belonging to the small club of people who share this 
sentiment: Ken Seto, Henry aka Ralph, Ed Lake, etc.

It's truly unfortunate that such passionate frauds even exist.

-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Scientific method and its applications mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-18 22:59 -0700
  Re: Scientific method and its applications Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 13:00 +0000
    Re: Scientific method and its applications mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-19 06:32 -0700
      Re: Scientific method and its applications Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 22:38 +0000
        Re: Scientific method and its applications The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-06-19 18:37 -0700
        Re: Scientific method and its applications mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-19 23:43 -0700
          Re: Scientific method and its applications JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 03:14 -0700
            Re: Scientific method and its applications mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-20 03:51 -0700
              Re: Scientific method and its applications Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 11:09 +0000
                Re: Scientific method and its applications mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-20 04:40 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 14:40 +0000
                Re: Scientific method and its applications The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-06-20 07:33 -0700
              Re: Scientific method and its applications JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 05:22 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-20 05:30 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 08:23 -0500
                Re: Scientific method and its applications mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-20 06:35 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications Eshiki Orakut <usa@iwikuh.ki> - 2017-06-20 13:39 +0000
                Re: Scientific method and its applications mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-20 06:45 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 14:40 +0000
                Re: Scientific method and its applications mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-20 09:14 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 10:27 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications Eshiki Orakut <usa@iwikuh.ki> - 2017-06-20 17:32 +0000
                Re: Scientific method and its applications mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-20 11:35 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 05:03 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-22 05:32 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 11:28 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-22 23:33 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 11:12 -0500
                Re: Scientific method and its applications mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-21 09:45 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 05:07 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 05:07 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 15:32 -0500
                Re: Scientific method and its applications The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-06-22 15:38 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-06-22 15:40 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-22 23:34 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 16:56 +0000
                Re: Scientific method and its applications The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-06-21 10:20 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-21 10:36 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-06-21 22:03 -0400
                Re: Scientific method and its applications mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-21 23:12 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 10:24 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 11:12 -0500
                Re: Scientific method and its applications JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 10:18 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-06-20 07:38 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 10:22 -0700
          Re: Scientific method and its applications Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 11:09 +0000
            Re: Scientific method and its applications mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-20 04:39 -0700
              Re: Scientific method and its applications Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 14:15 +0000
                Re: Scientific method and its applications mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-20 08:50 -0700
                Re: Scientific method and its applications mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-20 09:11 -0700
              Re: Scientific method and its applications The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-06-20 07:50 -0700
    Re: Scientific method and its applications JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 03:00 -0700
      Re: Scientific method and its applications Eshiki Orakut <usa@iwikuh.ki> - 2017-06-20 13:03 +0000
        Re: Scientific method and its applications The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-06-20 07:41 -0700
  Re: Scientific method and its applications The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-06-19 15:01 -0700
  Re: Scientific method and its applications The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-06-24 12:04 -0700
    Re: Scientific method and its applications mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-25 23:44 -0700

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