Groups > sci.electronics.design > #462438

Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols?

From	Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk>
Newsgroups	sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols?
Date	2017-05-31 15:50 +0100
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<ogml8j$t6e$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <ffrric5r9qv5vn53g719it368id1d3304p@4ax.com> <0ebc8aca-4260-47bc-a95c-5eb2bb4dc8c2@googlegroups.com> <7d8sic54snau69mlq0llb6sadc2oq2dbi5@4ax.com> <ogl84l$aon$1@dont-email.me> <ecCdnVHC4vRoU7PEnZ2dnUU7-QmdnZ2d@supernews.com>

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On 31/05/2017 15:11, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> On 05/30/2017 10:04 PM, rickman wrote:
>> John Larkin wrote on 5/30/2017 9:53 PM:

>>> The "busy" symbol is either a lot bigger than a bipolar transistor, or
>>> illegible. Either way, you have an ugly schematic.
>>>
>>> Schematics are art.
>>
>> Art has no absolutes.  One Man's Trash Is Another Man's Art
>>
>> http://mentalfloss.com/article/12668/one-mans-trash-another-mans-art
>>
>> https://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/297286/one-mans-trash-is-another-mans-art.html
>>
>>
>> http://www.sidandjim.com/one-man-s-art
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/usatoday/photos/a.100797840666.101835.13652355666/10152057191590667/?type=3
>
> The idea that there is no such thing as beauty--i.e. the Good as an
> object of desire--is one of the philosophical errors that got us where
> we are today.

There are many variations on what is art and what isn't. Some of the 
conceptual modern art is literally utter rubbish and has been mistaken 
for trash - notably a used ashtray at Eyestorm Gallery if memory serves.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-26270260

It's only value is in the brand name of the "creator", and the 
anticipated "appreciation" in market value that goes with it.

Some of the other stuff is at least in some part clever or interesting 
but largely relies on mainly dealers creating a market for it amongst 
the super rich with more money than sense. Sawn in half sharks for 
instance. I have seen some pretty silly modern art with ludicrous prices 
(especially some of the things I know the cost of making).

But where do you place some of the organic bronze castings of Henry 
Moore or carvings of Barbara Hepworth? When new they were controversial 
but today they are well regarded and sometimes stolen to order.

One of the curiosities is that judgement of beauty in faces is sort of 
hard wired. Too much or too little facial asymmetry looks ugly or other 
worldly respectively. Notably the elves in Lord of the Rings were chosen 
for having exceptionally symmetric faces. Film stars mostly are more 
symmetric than in the average population but not perfect.

The evolution of music over the centuries is probably the most 
complicated art form of all though. Stravinsky was cutting edge avant 
garde only a century ago where now it is mainstream classical music. 
Schoenberg's atonal music still remains inaccessible to most listeners.

Once you add the possibilities that arise from modern jazz and later 
electronic synthesisers the gamut of possible music just exploded. You 
can really only tell good music or art by what is still being played or 
looked at a few hundred years later. The rest is just ephemera.

-- 
Regards,
Martin Brown

Thread

Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-05-22 03:02 -0500
  Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-22 03:51 -0700
    Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-22 08:26 -0700
    Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-05-22 21:23 -0500
      Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-05-23 14:07 +1000
        Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-05-23 12:00 -0400
          Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-05-24 08:48 +1000
            Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-05-23 16:53 -0700
        Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-27 17:22 -0700
          Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-27 17:55 -0700
            Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-28 11:48 -0700
              Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-28 12:39 -0700
          Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-05-28 16:02 +1000
          Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-05-28 07:46 -0500
            Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-28 11:56 -0700
            Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-28 12:43 -0700
      Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-22 21:18 -0700
        Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-05-23 03:36 -0500
          Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-23 07:31 -0700
            Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-23 20:02 -0400
              Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-23 21:07 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-24 18:50 -0400
  Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-05-22 06:25 -0700
    Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-22 07:13 -0700
  Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-22 08:21 -0700
    Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-23 00:07 -0400
      Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-22 21:22 -0700
  Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-25 10:40 -0700
    Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-25 18:03 +0000
      Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-25 14:41 -0400
      Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-05-26 09:07 -0500
        Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-26 14:24 +0000
        Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-26 08:38 -0700
          Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-26 10:08 -0700
            Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-26 10:19 -0700
              Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-26 12:15 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-26 12:29 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-26 13:41 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-26 16:21 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-26 19:05 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-26 19:09 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-28 09:58 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-05-27 06:13 -0500
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-27 05:51 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-27 12:11 -0400
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-05-27 10:12 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-27 13:25 -0400
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-27 12:13 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-05-28 07:57 -0500
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-27 21:14 +0100
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-27 19:24 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-28 07:50 +0000
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-28 04:55 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-28 17:57 +0000
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-27 19:53 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-27 20:15 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-05-28 08:04 -0500
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-05-27 21:32 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-28 04:13 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-05-28 06:29 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-05-28 06:46 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-28 07:19 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-28 09:18 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-28 14:19 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-28 09:34 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-28 09:44 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-28 09:49 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-28 09:59 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-28 10:36 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-28 10:58 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-28 12:07 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-28 13:22 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-28 13:06 -0400
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-05-28 12:26 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-28 13:19 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-28 13:19 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-05-28 13:44 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-28 13:49 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-05-28 14:05 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-05-28 14:10 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-28 16:22 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-28 19:37 -0400
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-28 18:41 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-29 00:36 -0400
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-05-29 05:22 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-29 07:50 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-05-30 07:44 +1000
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-29 18:33 -0400
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-29 15:25 +0000
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-29 15:31 +0000
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-29 15:32 +0000
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-30 15:14 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-30 17:05 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-05-30 17:33 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-30 18:53 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-30 22:04 -0400
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-05-31 10:11 -0400
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-31 10:27 -0400
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-05-31 10:39 -0400
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-31 08:25 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-31 08:31 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-31 08:50 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-31 22:34 -0400
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-05-31 15:50 +0100
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-31 22:38 -0400
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-31 08:19 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-05-30 21:36 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-05-31 16:01 +1000
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-31 17:46 -0400
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-30 21:56 -0400
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-31 05:01 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-31 09:03 -0400
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-31 07:09 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-31 14:23 +0000
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-31 10:30 -0400
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-31 08:38 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-31 14:21 +0000
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2017-05-31 17:00 +0200
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-31 08:14 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-31 08:40 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-31 17:49 -0400
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-28 14:30 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-05-28 15:14 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-28 15:25 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-28 16:23 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-05-28 08:03 -0500
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-30 15:18 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-05-30 23:27 -0500
        Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-26 12:33 -0400
        Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-26 10:14 -0700
          Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-05-27 06:10 -0500
            Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-27 08:11 -0700
              Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-05-28 07:53 -0500
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-05-28 08:06 -0700
                Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-28 12:13 -0400
    Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-27 16:38 -0700
  Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-31 09:37 -0700
    Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-05-31 13:50 -0500
      Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-31 12:12 -0700
      Re: Can we PLEASE stop using these shitty symbols? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-31 17:53 -0400

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