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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #459457
| From | Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.electronics.design |
| Subject | Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? |
| Date | 2017-05-08 15:55 -0700 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <oeqsr1$9di$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | <oeqk5a$akq$1@dont-email.me> <4804d959-ce6b-4965-a451-842c192e0b59@googlegroups.com> <0tp1hcpdp80r9o49jireh0cqimpn79n3id@4ax.com> |
On 5/8/2017 2:54 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> "Pre-existing condition" means that you are sick before you apply for
> insurance. Like applying for homeowners' insurance when your house is
> on fire.
No. Preexisting condition means you *had* (or still have)
something that represents a KNOWN risk (insurers are all about
actuarial science) vs. an UNKNOWN risk.
YOU could show up, tomorrow, with a cancer diagnosis. The insurer
has to factor in your chances of presenting them with a future cost
based on the LIKELIHOOD of your getting a cancer diagnosis WHILE
INSURED with them (they care little about what it costs some OTHER
insurer to address your needs once you're no longer one of their
customers).
OTOH, if you've *had* a cancer diagnosis in the past, that changes the
calculus for the likelihood of you developing another cancer -- or,
some other cost related to your having had cancer.
Insurers want to AVOID risk. Just like folks extending credit want
to avoid customers who are likely to default (unless they can capture
a boatload of cash from the average such customer BEFORE he defaults).
That's why smokers are charged a premium -- because (despite the tobacco
company denialists testimony to the contrary), smoking dramatically
increases the risk of certain EXPENSIVE health-care issues.
Left to their own devices, insurers would characterize many aspects of
your behavior and use them to better refine their apportionment of risk
to you, as an individual. Age, sex, tobacco use, weight, family history,
ZIP code, race, etc.
But, women would complain because it increased their rates. Fat people because
"it's not a matter of lifestyle; I've got a GLANDULAR problem". Folks living
in areas with a higher rate of gun violence would decry having to incur the
cost of the violence *and* increased health insurance premiums as a result!
Should the insurer assume all the risk? Should your *peers* assume it?
Or, should *you* assume it (riders and user-specific higher premiums)?
Make claims against your home/auto insurance, and your premium goes
up *or* the insurer decides to cancel your policy. Should we increase
the premiums of folks who are diagnosed with an illness -- even if that
happens *after* the policy was purchased (i.e., not a "preexisting
condition")? Should the insurer be allowed to coerce you into lifestyle
changes *wthout* using premiums as the only lever?
> The repubs are just doing the usual congressional thing, complex
> tinkering with a complex mess without addressing the fundamamentals,
> much less making things cheaper and simpler.
Exactly. Take ALL of the administrative costs out of health care
and all you do is flatten the curve for a year. Then, it resumes the
same accelerated (wrt other industries) growth that it exhibited
prior to the excision.
> Single-payer would just dump the expensive mess onto the feds, who
> would borrow money to pay for it.
You don't really believe that, do you?
Do you find NO benefit from dealing with single, large component
suppliers? Do you see no difference between dealing with ONE
big supplier vs. a dozen *different* (perhaps equally large)
suppliers, each with their own contract terms?
Do you have to review your "personal information" (particularly,
name of insurer, contract/group/policy numbers, terms, etc.)
prior to each visit to ANY provider? Why? (Ans: because it
can change at any time and the provider needs to know who/how
to bill for the services that WILL be administered, today).
Last week, it was announced that UHC (big, here) no longer had
a contractual relationship with one of the larger sets of providers.
Folks using providers in that particular "sub"network were SoL.
Likewise, any surgeries/procedures at the hospitals in that
subnetwork would not be covered.
Ooops!
Obviously, all of those providers were extremely vigilant to customers
walking in for care (even if the appointment had been scheduled months
before) who carried insurance underwritten by UHC.
"You understand that *you* will be liable for the cost of today's
care. Please sign here..."
OTOH, folks carrying insurance NOT underwritten by UHC were unaffected.
But, ALL providers were inconvenienced by this as they, no doubt,
didn't want to find themselves holding the bag for care provided and
having to chase down a bunch of *individual* customers for payment!
There's more cost in that activity AND more risk (folks who don't
or can't pay).
A single payer means the provider doesn't have to wonder which procedures
are covered on "your plan". Or, which plan that is, THIS WEEK.
<https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4283267/>
suggests the cost of supporting multiple payers/plans approaches
15% of healthcare costs. Would you like a 15% cut in your
healthcare *premiums*?
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Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 16:27 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-05-08 14:20 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-08 14:54 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 18:08 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-08 20:01 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-08 20:14 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-08 20:47 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-08 21:08 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-08 21:14 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-05-10 09:33 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-05-11 05:29 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? kevin93 <kevin@whitedigs.com> - 2017-05-10 12:40 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-10 21:02 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? kevin93 <kevin@whitedigs.com> - 2017-05-11 16:31 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-11 16:39 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-11 16:44 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-11 20:26 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-05-11 21:11 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 00:41 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 21:26 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-08 21:31 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 21:48 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-05-10 10:24 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 13:35 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-05-10 11:25 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 18:18 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-05-10 18:38 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-10 19:09 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-10 18:49 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-08 21:37 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-08 19:52 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-05-08 22:58 -0500
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-09 01:14 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-05-10 14:19 -0500
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-05-10 18:30 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 21:46 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-05-10 18:53 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-09 09:29 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 12:13 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-05-10 09:38 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 13:25 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-10 13:41 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-05-10 11:44 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 18:40 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-05-10 18:49 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? kevin93 <kevin@whitedigs.com> - 2017-05-10 19:18 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-10 20:12 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-05-11 19:16 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? kevin93 <kevin@whitedigs.com> - 2017-05-11 20:19 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-11 21:43 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-10 19:27 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-08 19:43 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-08 20:30 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-09 08:28 +0100
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-09 01:20 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-09 09:39 +0100
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 12:22 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-09 17:37 +0100
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 12:47 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2017-05-09 07:58 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-09 06:33 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-09 12:48 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 12:26 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-09 20:08 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-08 15:55 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-08 19:39 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-08 18:34 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-08 20:49 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-08 17:55 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-08 20:10 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-09 08:33 +0100
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-09 00:55 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-09 09:21 +0100
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-09 01:47 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? mike <ham789@netzero.net> - 2017-05-09 04:06 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-09 06:00 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? mike <ham789@netzero.net> - 2017-05-09 16:30 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 20:08 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-09 20:10 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? mike <ham789@netzero.net> - 2017-05-09 19:50 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-10 12:51 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-09 19:30 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-09 20:55 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? mike <ham789@netzero.net> - 2017-05-09 21:44 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-09 23:46 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 12:33 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-05-10 10:47 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 18:44 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-10 19:37 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-05-11 20:54 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 00:31 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-11 22:22 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 12:31 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-09 17:40 +0100
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Frank Miles <fpm@u.washington.edu> - 2017-05-08 23:39 +0000
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-08 19:34 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-05-08 22:04 -0500
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 18:03 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-08 20:02 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-08 18:41 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? mike <ham789@netzero.net> - 2017-05-08 19:04 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-08 22:17 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 22:27 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-08 22:30 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-08 20:30 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-08 19:33 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 22:55 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-08 20:21 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-05-09 09:13 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 12:45 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-05-10 08:05 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-05-10 19:04 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-10 22:38 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 23:03 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-05-08 14:22 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-08 17:08 -0700
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-08 20:20 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-05-08 20:30 -0400
Re: Why Have Medical Insurance? bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-08 20:42 -0700
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