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Re: Patch-panel fabrication

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On 5/7/2017 3:51 AM, whit3rd wrote:
> On Saturday, May 6, 2017 at 11:47:22 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
>
>> Look at the problem from the top.  Let's use *your* house, for
>> example (as you are infinitely more familiar with its layout).
>>
>> [No basement or attic allowed, though (cuz we don't have either, here).
>
>> First, you need to find a location for a 96 port *switch*.
>
> Not quite right; my house doesn't have 96 outlets all wired to
> a central location, it'll NEVER have or need more than a dozen or two
> active.   Extra wire runs before you need it is a good thing.  But, 8 dozen?

They aren't "extra".

72 of the drops are connected to bits of "automation" stuffed in walls,
ceilings, etc.  E.g, 11 "IP cameras", irrigation system controller,
10 "network speakers", HVAC controller, alarm system, rooftop weather
station, skylight controllers, utility monitoring, tie in to genset,
controller for laundry, garage door, 3 "control panels" to interact
with the system, etc. etc.

The remaining 24 drops are what you'd tend to think of as a "wired home";
uncommitted "outlets" scattered around the house.  Places where you might
want to plug in a laptop, printer, etc.  The difference being that I can
provide some power to those locations without resorting on "local" wall
warts.

*Or*, a "media display" that can pull content from a "media tank", etc.
(e.g., one in each bedroom, living room, family room -- even kitchen,
if desired)

If I split up the switch, then I just end up having to solve the same
problem in multiple places -- including battery backup, physical
security, etc.

> If the audio/video cluster needs a few ports for TV/vidgame/streaming-audio,
> it'll get its own eight-port switch and ONE cat5 to the closet.  Or MAYBE
> two.

Goal is to replace the conventional appliances, here, with IP-everything.
E.g., there are OTA tuners to capture "broadcast media" and store to
media server; then "displays" (audio or video) to replay that content
at later times -- in any room that has an uncommitted drop (into which
a "display" can be fitted).

>> Of course, you'll need to have power nearby for the switch
>> to operate.  As the rest of the distributed kit is powered
>> from the switch (PoE), the switch must be capable of sourcing
>> all of that power -- 1400W in my case
>
> My only PoE switch is eight ports; even with full PoE load, it
> can't use more than 60w.

Most PoE switches are intended for use in VoIP systems.  So, 7.5W/phone
is adequate (8*7.5=60W!  :> )

OTOH, if you're powering a loudspeaker over that drop, 7.5W for the
remote "computer"/electronics *and* audio output power is a bit cramped.

Likewise, if powering solenoids for irrigation system, how many do you
want to be able to activate concurrently (note that you have to always
activate the master solenoid in addition to any zones slaved to it).

How much power for the Ir illuminators on the cameras?  Or for the PTZ
bases?

Etc.

[You might want to see what sort of money folks get for 96 port PoE
switches with 1+KW capabilities.  Then, figure out how much more to
battery backup the thing (being able to shed loads to conserve
battery)  :>  It's "enlightening"!  :< ]

> It seems your problem definition
> has an order of magnitude larger scale than mine, but the
> 'available places' has smaller scale.   I've got a unfinished basement
> available.

Yes, the missing basement is the real killer.  But, basements appear
to be few and far between in this part of the country (lots of stuff
hiding under beds that should be in a basement -- electronics don't like
being stored in overly hot garages!)

>> And, you have to make it not be obtrusive. (tough enough having to explain
>> why there's a pinball machine in the front hallway).
>
> Yeah, I had the Galaga machine in the front hallway for a while.
> Got rid of it.

I left a Tempest in Chicago cuz it was too damn heavy to get onto
the truck.  Neighbor's wife wasn't too happy with me (though the
neighbor was ecstatic!).  Left another pinball with a friend for
similar reasons.  And, one back in my childhood home.  <shrug>

The nature of the toys changes, with age...  but, the desire to play
doesn't!

>> Finally, it has to be marginally accessible
>> Have you found that place in YOUR home, yet?  :>
>
> Not an ideal place, no.   Two closets that have adjacent
> boxed-in but unused volumes, where a part of the wall could
> be opened (steel 'inspection door' insert and some paint, and it'll
> look like it belongs).  One large closet, where there's a 1' by 5'
> over-the-door space where one could fit a shallow shelf or RETMA rack.
> And, the basement.

Closets in each of the bedrooms.  But, those are supposed to be
*bedrooms*, not "equipment rooms".  Remember, you've still got all
those BTUs to deal with!

>> [For example, the office kit is wired to a 24 port switch
>> fastened to the *underside* of one of the work surfaces -- as
>> are all of the network cables feeding that switch!]
>
> Yeah, I had a desk once that included an office telephone switchboard
> (the kneehole of the desk included a latched panel over a relay rack).
> That's an OK solution, and your office now needs far less support
> from the central network panel; maybe instead of 96 ports, down
> to 72?

Note that I've not included the 24 ports (of which, only 20 are in use)
in the office nor the 7 in the spare bedroom.  Separate switches in
those locations handle those and connect to the rest of the house
through one of the two drops present in each bedroom (one of each is
intended to eventually feed a media display in each room while the
other could be used to talk to the outside world (e.g., a laptop;
eschew wireless!)

>> So, you pick the most out-of-the-way parts of the space
>> and use those....
>
> But, that doesn't always work.  Sometimes, you have to evict an
> old tenant.   Pinball machine?

In my case, I have to ensure SWMBO doesn't get too pissy about my
play things.  But, long term, have to make sure I don't bugger the house
in ways that make it difficult to resell.  E.g., exploiting one of the
walk-ins in the master bedroom might be convenient FOR ME -- but, could
be a turn off for a future owner wondering why there are all those
wires in the bedroom closet!  :<

[I've a friend whose husband passed away a few years ago.  She was
complaining to me about the wires in the bedroom closet.  I didn't
understand what she was referencing until I visited:  turns out her
husband had chosen a closet in one of the spare bedrooms to house
an assortment of "stuff" that he'd wired throughout the house.
Not even a consistent set of stuff -- just a random assortment of
wires for various purposes that he elected to terminate in that
closet.  "What should I do with all these things?"  "Tuck the
excess into the walls and have a drywall guy come over and plaster
it over.  Pretend it doesn't exist!"]

A big part of this has been learning what the problems would be
retrofitting a wired solution to an existing home.  Wireless
solutions are easier to deploy.  But, require lots of distributed
power sources (72 of them?) for the various bits of kit around
the house.

And, are easily subverted by anyone intent on disrupting comms
(e.g., to cripple the alarm system's ability to report an
intrusion).  Or, anyone intent on monitoring the activities
within the house, remotely ("Gee, let's listen in on what is
being said in the bedroom...")

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Patch-panel fabrication Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-03 12:54 -0700
  Re: Patch-panel fabrication Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-05-03 13:23 -0700
    Re: Patch-panel fabrication Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-04 00:10 -0700
      Re: Patch-panel fabrication Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-05-04 11:27 -0700
        Re: Patch-panel fabrication Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-04 11:43 -0700
        Re: Patch-panel fabrication Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-05-05 08:57 +1000
          Re: Patch-panel fabrication Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-05-06 05:47 -0700
        Re: Patch-panel fabrication krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-04 19:37 -0400
      Re: Patch-panel fabrication Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-05-04 17:56 -0400
        Re: Patch-panel fabrication Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-05-06 05:46 -0700
      Re: Patch-panel fabrication Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-05-11 05:57 +0000
        Re: Patch-panel fabrication Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-11 10:37 -0700
  Re: Patch-panel fabrication Martin Riddle <martin_ridd@verizon.net> - 2017-05-03 20:32 -0400
    Re: Patch-panel fabrication Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-03 23:59 -0700
  Re: Patch-panel fabrication Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-05-04 06:34 +0000
    Re: Patch-panel fabrication Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-04 01:45 -0700
  Re: Patch-panel fabrication whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 01:52 -0700
    Re: Patch-panel fabrication Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-04 11:42 -0700
      Re: Patch-panel fabrication whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 21:22 -0700
        Re: Patch-panel fabrication Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-04 23:04 -0700
          Re: Patch-panel fabrication whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 23:24 -0700
            Re: Patch-panel fabrication Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-05 00:19 -0700
              Re: Patch-panel fabrication whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-05 00:45 -0700
                Re: Patch-panel fabrication Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-05 02:17 -0700
  Re: Patch-panel fabrication jrwalliker@gmail.com - 2017-05-04 08:40 -0700
    Re: Patch-panel fabrication Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-04 10:12 -0700
      Re: Patch-panel fabrication jrwalliker@gmail.com - 2017-05-04 10:27 -0700
        Re: Patch-panel fabrication Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-04 11:01 -0700
          Re: Patch-panel fabrication makolber@yahoo.com - 2017-05-04 11:18 -0700
            Re: Patch-panel fabrication Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-04 11:27 -0700
      Re: Patch-panel fabrication Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-05-06 05:33 +0000
        Re: Patch-panel fabrication Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-06 15:40 -0700
          Re: Patch-panel fabrication whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 20:15 -0700
            Re: Patch-panel fabrication Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-06 23:47 -0700
              Re: Patch-panel fabrication whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 03:51 -0700
                Re: Patch-panel fabrication Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-07 05:20 -0700
          Re: Patch-panel fabrication (POE) Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-07 17:30 +0000
            Re: Patch-panel fabrication (POE) Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-07 11:49 -0700
              Re: Patch-panel fabrication (POE) Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-07 18:58 +0000
                Re: Patch-panel fabrication (POE) Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-07 12:24 -0700
                Re: Patch-panel fabrication (POE) Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-07 19:48 +0000
                Re: Patch-panel fabrication (POE) Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-07 13:29 -0700
                Re: Patch-panel fabrication (POE) Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-07 20:54 +0000
  Re: Patch-panel fabrication Allan Herriman <allanherriman@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-07 10:35 +0000
    Re: Patch-panel fabrication Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-07 05:26 -0700

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