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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #454717

Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core?

From rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.electronics.design
Subject Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core?
Date 2017-04-01 23:55 -0400
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <obpshp$djn$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (14 earlier) <58da0f33$0$1373$c3e8da3$1cbc7475@news.astraweb.com> <obdubg$7fc$1@dont-email.me> <58dc3c63$0$57932$c3e8da3$c8b7d2e6@news.astraweb.com> <38f6e8e9-b9ea-46e7-9169-bed65a02906e@googlegroups.com> <58e0695b$0$38578$b1db1813$2411a48f@news.astraweb.com>

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On 4/1/2017 10:59 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
> On 31/03/17 15:40, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 6:59:53 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
>>> On 29/03/17 02:12, amdx wrote:
>>>> On 3/28/2017 2:22 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
>>>>> On 28/03/17 13:18, amdx wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/27/2017 6:16 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
>>>>>>> On 27/03/17 23:25, amdx wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2017 6:57 AM, Tauno Voipio wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Joerg, you seem not understand the innermost sense of the crystal-
>>>>>>>>> radio people. They are closely related to audiophools, and it is
>>>>>>>>> quite impossible to use sensible technical argumentation here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   I don't get that at all, can you back that up with any facts?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ~1MHz, Q=500, bandwidth ~ 2KHz. Remind me why you need Q>1500?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  You haven't connected an antenna, and tried to drive a headset yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Umm, I think that was me in about 1971.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> More voltage does not create better audio.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   But if it is a very weak signal on the antenna, you don't want to
>>>>>> waste any signal in loss resistances.
>>>>>
>>>>> You start to *reject* some of the received power as soon as the
>>>>> Q passes 200ish, and you destroy the audio at the same time.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can quadruple your received power by doubling your coil
>>>>> diameter, or fitting a longer wire. That's *far* FAR more
>>>>> effective than saving 0.2% by using higher Q.
>>>>
>>>>  Crystal radios do not use the coil to collect RF energy from the air,
>>>> a long wire antenna of 25ft to 150 is attached tothe coil to pickup the
>>>> RF signal.
>>>>   If you want to discuss loop antennas, start a new thread.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> With a crystal ear-piece, you still may have an impedance matching
>>>>> problem. For that, you should use an audio transformer *after*
>>>>> the detector.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry to puncture your dogma.
>>>>
>>>>  Take a breath!
>>>>  I'll start simple, Coil and tuning cap have a unloaded Q of
>>>> 1000. To extract maximum power you use a load that matches the
>>>> Q times Xl of the coil. Loading the coil with it's matched
>>>> impedance lowers the Q to 500.
>>>
>>> You're making slightly more sense than Rickman, who hasn't
>>> responded to *any* of the numbers I suggested, but one thing
>>> still puzzles me.
>>>
>>> Why worry about increasing Q above 500, when you can get more
>>> than the extra 0.2% (lost energy at Q=500) by adding 3 inches
>>> more antenna wire?
>>
>> Possible answer:
>>
>> Because, if you actually need Q=500 for selectivity, an LC tank
>> with an unloaded Q of 500 leaves you no power to drive an earphone?
>> And any improvement in unloaded tank 'Q' translates directly into more
>> power available for audio output?
>
> James, thanks.
>
> That's the sanest answer yet and goes some way to explaining
> what the xtal guys are after.
>
> However, the single-diode detector is a very assymetric load.
> That's going to affect things a bit, don't you think? By which
> I mean that the coil will "see" the load during rising amplitude,
> but not during falling amplitude. The coupling to a crystal
> earpiece (generally capacitive, but highly reactive load) is
> gonna make quite things weird, by pulling the resonant frequency
> around a lot, dependent on the audio signal...
>
> I should pull out my old xtal earpieces and measure the capacitance.
> I suspect they'd detune a high-Q front end quite a bit, and that
> really calls into question the use of Q to limit bandwidth.

I'm unclear what you are describing.  When you say "detune" you are not 
describing an effect on the Q, but rather an effect on the tuned 
frequency.  If the capacitance of the earpiece impacts the tuning of the 
receiver, the adjustment of the tuning capacitor would make up for that 
when operated.

Or do you mean detune as a way of describing the reduced Q from the 
loading of the circuit by the earpiece?  How exactly would the 
capacitance of a crystal earpiece affect the loading?

When you measure the capacitance of the earpiece, also measure the 
resistance at audio frequencies.  The capacitance is only significant in 
that context.

I believe a serious crystal set operator will use high end headphones 
however.  I believe various military headsets are valued for this use 
due to their high sensitivity.  So the functioning of an inexpensive 
peizo earpiece may not be so relevant, but interesting anyway.  When I 
read about the detail explored to characterize the detecting diode I was 
very impressed.  So I can see every part of such a simple radio being 
optimized to the nth degree.

-- 

Rick C

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Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core?  "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-03-14 20:18 -0800
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-03-14 22:21 -0700
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-14 23:43 -0700
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-03-15 12:27 -0800
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 17:19 -0700
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-03-15 18:51 -0800
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 20:08 -0700
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 00:24 -0400
            Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 22:17 -0700
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-16 13:04 -0500
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 02:48 -0400
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? makolber@yahoo.com - 2017-03-15 06:35 -0700
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-03-15 12:46 -0800
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 17:22 -0700
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Mike Perkins <spam@spam.com> - 2017-03-30 01:42 +0100
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 18:20 -0700
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-16 08:44 +0200
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 00:17 -0700
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-17 00:58 +0200
            Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 16:19 -0700
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-03-15 13:01 -0800
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 17:39 -0400
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 17:33 -0700
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core?  "Dave M" <dgminala@mediacombb.net> - 2017-03-15 09:40 -0500
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 17:26 -0700
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-15 08:25 -0700
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-03-15 12:38 -0500
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 17:28 -0700
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-15 17:59 -0700
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 18:10 -0700
            Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-16 08:20 -0700
              Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-16 09:45 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-16 10:26 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 15:47 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-16 17:15 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 17:36 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-16 18:46 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 23:45 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-17 07:30 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-17 08:28 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-17 11:38 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-17 12:21 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-03-17 13:08 -0800
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-18 10:32 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-17 17:10 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 22:31 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-18 14:53 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-18 20:38 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2017-03-18 18:10 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-18 18:39 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2017-03-19 09:53 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-19 12:27 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-18 22:11 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-19 10:41 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-17 17:13 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-17 17:28 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-18 12:21 +0200
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Allan Herriman <allanherriman@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-18 12:15 +0000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-17 17:36 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-17 18:09 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-17 18:21 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-18 10:49 +0200
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-18 08:30 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? mkolber1@gmail.com - 2017-03-18 12:49 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-18 12:57 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-18 23:48 +0200
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-18 20:08 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? kevin93 <kevin@whitedigs.com> - 2017-03-18 13:09 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-18 04:08 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-19 12:32 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-19 10:45 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-20 11:08 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-19 22:31 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-20 16:31 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-21 01:19 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-03-22 19:15 +0000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-18 10:41 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-18 14:47 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-19 00:22 +0200
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-19 12:39 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-18 19:11 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-19 13:15 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-20 04:26 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-21 13:17 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-21 01:32 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-21 10:38 +0200
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-21 02:53 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-21 01:01 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-21 12:33 +0200
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-21 09:42 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-21 19:05 +0000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-21 12:49 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-21 18:39 +0000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-21 22:39 +0200
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-21 12:30 +0200
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-19 17:43 +0200
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-21 14:39 +0200
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-21 09:46 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-17 17:31 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-17 17:46 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-17 18:18 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-21 09:55 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-17 07:27 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? DemonicTubes <tlackie@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 09:11 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-17 11:40 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-03-17 12:29 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-17 12:25 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-03-18 16:20 -0400
              Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 15:41 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-16 16:14 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 16:25 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-19 11:22 -0500
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-15 21:20 -0500
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-15 23:02 -0500
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 22:52 -0700
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 02:48 -0400
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 00:10 -0700
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-16 08:21 -0500
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 16:10 -0700
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Bill Beaty <billb@eskimo.com> - 2017-03-16 12:12 -0700
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-16 13:06 -0700
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-16 15:39 -0500
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-16 19:57 -0700
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-18 21:26 -0500
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-17 09:44 -0700
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-17 17:35 -0700
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-03-17 18:35 -0800
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-20 09:01 -0700
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-19 08:20 -0500
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-03-19 15:31 -0800
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-19 19:42 -0400
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-19 19:20 -0500
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-19 17:49 -0700
            Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-19 20:19 -0500
              Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2017-03-19 19:44 -0800
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 00:00 -0400
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-19 23:56 -0400
            Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 08:36 -0500
              Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-20 09:29 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 12:54 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 13:16 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-20 12:31 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 16:46 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 17:17 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-20 18:25 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 17:15 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 18:25 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 17:56 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-20 18:49 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-21 00:19 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-21 07:27 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-21 07:28 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-21 11:24 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 13:39 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-23 13:52 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-23 16:48 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-23 23:58 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 01:13 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-24 07:00 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 12:47 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-24 15:13 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 17:05 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-24 08:44 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-24 09:13 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-24 09:40 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-24 13:08 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-24 13:42 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-24 14:20 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-24 22:46 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-24 22:13 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-25 09:29 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-25 11:33 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 15:20 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-25 15:25 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 19:17 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-25 17:02 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 21:25 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-25 20:10 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 21:32 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-25 22:42 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-26 00:00 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-26 04:00 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-26 05:36 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-26 09:34 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-26 10:23 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-26 13:10 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-03-27 09:32 +0000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-25 14:44 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 16:34 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-25 16:12 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 17:44 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-25 17:08 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-25 16:00 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-25 18:27 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 19:31 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-25 21:21 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 23:42 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-25 17:34 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 16:34 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 17:21 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 18:27 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 17:54 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 20:55 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 20:09 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 21:28 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 21:23 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 23:25 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-21 07:54 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-21 07:57 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-21 11:54 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-21 12:21 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-21 21:40 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 13:27 -0400
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-03-20 15:41 -0800
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 19:13 -0500
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 21:18 -0400
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-21 04:35 -0500
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-20 11:06 +0200
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-24 10:14 -0700
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 13:59 -0400
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-24 13:36 -0700
            Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 13:49 -0400
              Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-25 12:30 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 21:39 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-26 07:35 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-26 13:15 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-27 07:46 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-27 10:59 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-27 09:22 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-27 23:47 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-28 18:15 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 03:42 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-28 19:07 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 04:35 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-28 21:58 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-28 09:42 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-28 12:51 +0300
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-28 07:23 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 13:28 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-30 00:37 +0300
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 21:02 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-28 09:57 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-28 09:05 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-28 11:27 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 13:29 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-27 14:57 +0300
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-27 07:25 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-03-27 09:47 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-27 19:51 +0300
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-27 12:21 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-27 18:54 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-28 10:16 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-27 16:58 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-27 23:33 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-28 18:18 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 03:48 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-28 07:28 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-28 13:41 +0300
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-03-28 07:44 +0000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-27 21:18 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-28 18:22 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 04:01 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-28 11:04 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-28 10:58 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-28 11:13 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-28 10:12 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 13:47 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-29 14:18 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-30 00:47 +0300
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-29 19:15 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 21:40 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-29 14:26 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 23:47 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-29 10:18 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-29 19:12 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-29 11:49 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2017-03-29 18:21 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-29 14:19 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2017-03-29 18:01 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Ralph Barone <ralph@invalid.com> - 2017-03-30 02:35 +0000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-29 14:23 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 23:46 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-30 21:40 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-31 20:08 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-04-02 12:59 +1000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 23:55 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-04-02 14:36 +1000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 01:56 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-04-02 18:11 +1000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-04-02 07:35 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? mkolber1@gmail.com - 2017-04-02 06:16 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-04-03 07:40 +1000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-04-02 08:12 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-04-03 08:47 +1000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-04-02 18:39 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-04-02 21:22 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-04-03 14:12 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-27 23:25 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-28 12:58 +0300
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-27 07:52 -0700
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-24 21:35 +0200

csiph-web