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Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix

From David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups comp.arch.embedded
Subject Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix
Date 2017-03-29 10:31 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <obfr85$g0i$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (10 earlier) <jDaCA.285646$FF4.12474@fx27.am4> <q7ydnQkIucY73kTFnZ2dnUU7-fWdnZ2d@giganews.com> <87shlxuclb.fsf@nightsong.com> <obd2p6$c2r$1@dont-email.me> <obeuni$kkv$1@dont-email.me>

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On 29/03/17 02:29, Les Cargill wrote:
> David Brown wrote:
>> On 28/03/17 08:42, Paul Rubin wrote:
>>> Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> writes:
>>>> I don't write many bugs that have to do with overrunning array
>>>> boundaries, particularly because I both inspect and test for it.
>>>
>>> It helps if you're writing embedded code, which tends to not deal with
>>> too much variable sized data or have complicated control flow.
>>> Otherwise how can you really tell?  Inspection stops helping much once
>>> the program is large enough.  Do you do any fuzz testing etc.?
>>>
>>
>> I think the key point is program design, rather than testing.  Testing
>> can help show that you /have/ bugs, it doesn't show that you /don't/
>> have bugs.
>>
> 
> But design is about constraints, and testing can show that constraints
> are met. That has a seriously Pareto ( 90/10 ) effect on development
> outcomes. The other 10 percent takes the other 90 percent of time
> allotted.
> 
>> I don't have many bugs involving overrunning arrays either (despite
>> being a mere human).  I just make sure I know the size of my arrays when
>> I use them.
>>
> 
> Me too.
> 
> Apparently, that is too hard and we'll all suffer deadly incursions.
> 

There are some kinds of defects that can be avoided by good design.
Some kinds can be spotted by static error checking at compile time.  And
some kinds can be best spotted using tests.

Array overruns are best avoided by good programming practice - you know
exactly what size your array is when you use it.  You don't make
assumptions - make sure you /know/.  And they are usually very hard to
find by tests - the effect of an array overrun is typically "something
odd is happening" because you have written to a different memory object
unexpectedly.

You cannot sensibly use run-time checks of array sizes, except
occasionally during development.  You can only check the array bounds on
access if you know the bounds - and if you know the bounds during the
access, then the code that makes the accesses already knows these bounds
and should not attempt such accesses.  At best, you might spot
typographical errors - using "sizeOfInBuffer" when you meant
"sizeOfOutBuffer".

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Thread

Dimension of a matrix Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-03-23 18:17 -0500
  Re: Dimension of a matrix Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-23 23:21 -0700
    Re: Dimension of a matrix David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 09:18 +0100
      Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2017-03-24 18:24 +0000
        Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> - 2017-03-24 19:32 -0500
          Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2017-03-25 09:59 +0100
          Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-25 13:08 -0500
        Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-25 01:57 +0100
          Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-25 18:34 +1100
            Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2017-03-26 23:53 +0000
              Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-27 09:51 +0200
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-27 20:19 +1100
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-27 12:17 +0200
          Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-25 09:20 -0700
        Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-24 23:14 -0400
          Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> - 2017-03-25 11:07 -0500
            Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-26 05:45 -0400
              Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Wouter van Ooijen <wouter@voti.nl> - 2017-03-26 13:14 +0200
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-26 11:08 -0700
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Wouter van Ooijen <wouter@voti.nl> - 2017-03-26 20:24 +0200
              Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> - 2017-03-26 15:16 -0500
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2017-03-27 00:09 +0000
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-03-26 19:43 -0500
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-27 16:57 +0100
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> - 2017-03-27 11:53 -0500
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-27 22:04 +0200
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-03-27 18:32 -0500
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-28 11:03 +1100
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-27 22:07 +0100
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-27 23:42 -0700
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-28 09:22 +0200
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-28 00:42 -0700
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-28 09:07 +0100
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-28 19:34 -0500
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> - 2017-03-29 11:39 -0500
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-28 19:29 -0500
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-29 10:31 +0200
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2017-03-30 00:23 +0000
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-29 19:31 -0500
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Phil Martel <pomartel@comcast.net> - 2017-03-30 11:51 -0400
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-30 19:16 -0500
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-31 09:21 +0200
                Re: Type-safety and C++, was: Re: Dimension of a matrix Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-03-28 14:19 -0500
    Re: Dimension of a matrix Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> - 2017-03-24 11:05 -0500
      Re: Dimension of a matrix David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 17:33 +0100
        Re: Dimension of a matrix Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> - 2017-03-24 12:09 -0500
      Re: Dimension of a matrix Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-25 13:09 -0500
    Re: Dimension of a matrix Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-25 13:05 -0500
  Re: Dimension of a matrix David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 09:20 +0100
    Re: Dimension of a matrix Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-25 13:12 -0500
      Re: Dimension of a matrix Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2017-03-25 20:08 +0100
        Re: Dimension of a matrix Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-25 15:17 -0500
          Re: Dimension of a matrix David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-26 17:32 +0200
            Re: Dimension of a matrix Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-26 11:55 -0500
              Re: Dimension of a matrix David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-26 21:23 +0200
                Re: Dimension of a matrix Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-29 19:36 -0500
                Re: Dimension of a matrix Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2017-03-30 00:36 +0000
                Re: Dimension of a matrix Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-29 19:55 -0700
                Re: Dimension of a matrix David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 09:49 +0200
                Re: Dimension of a matrix Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2017-03-30 18:07 +0000
                Re: Dimension of a matrix David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 09:47 +0200
  Re: Dimension of a matrix Wouter van Ooijen <wouter@voti.nl> - 2017-03-25 19:08 +0100
    Re: Dimension of a matrix Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-25 15:21 -0500
      Re: Dimension of a matrix Wouter van Ooijen <wouter@voti.nl> - 2017-03-26 14:43 +0200

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