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Re: Can a variable be both static and extern

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On 25/03/17 14:47, James R. Kuyper wrote:
> On 03/24/2017 02:24 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 24/03/17 16:41, David Brown wrote:
> ...
>>> Careful - Richard will bite you for arguing by appealing to authority!
>>
>> Ha, and perhaps ha as well.
>>
>> Nevertheless, appeals to the Standard are appeals to /appropriate/
>> authority. Appeals to any other authority, no matter how prestigious,
>> are fallacious.
>
> I think there's a key distinction to be made, and "appropriate" isn't
> quite the right one.
>
> When the question is "What does Authority X say about statement q?",
> then there is absolutely no evidence more relevant than the actual words
> that came from X. Other evidence can be relevant: evidence that the
> words were incorrectly recorded, or even faked, evidence indicating that
> X was lying (as a document, rather than a person, the C standard can't
> lie; but the C committee could), evidence about X's cultural background
> which might change the meaning conveyed by X's words, etc., but the
> actual words of X are always the primary source. And that is why the
> Standard itself is the single most relevant source of information about
> what the Standard says, with the C committee being the place to go if
> there's any ambiguity about the meaning of those words.

Right so far...

> However, if the question is "Is statement q true?", arguments citing X's
> belief that q is true are, at best, useful supporting arguments, no
> matter how appropriate X is as an authority.

With Pontius Pilate, I find myself asking "What is truth?"

C may be considered to be a formal system, and ISO/IEC 9899 constitutes 
the definition of that system. Any question about C is therefore an 
enquiry about the consequences of applying "the rules" (i.e. ISO/IEC 
9899) to a particular language construct.

And so the *only* relevant authority is ISO/IEC 9899, because any other 
authority cannot help but take second place to the language definition 
itself. The only way in which the Standard can be superseded on a 
question /about C/ is when a particular version of that Standard is 
invoked, in which case it trumps later Standards /for that question/, 
but without specific mention of a version (C90, C99, C11, etc), we have 
to assume that the latest ISO release is the /definitive/ answer to all 
questions about the language.

> If X believes that q is
> true, X must know of some argument that X considers valid, with that
> conclusion. That argument is a far more relevant than the simple fact
> that X believes q to be true.

Not when X is ISO/IEC 9899. It is sufficient for X to /state/ that q is 
true, and it is then, by definition, true.

> That's because, no matter how good X's
> credentials are, X might be mistaken, or even lying.

Oddly, this turns out not to matter. If q is a question about C and X is 
ISO/IEC 9899, then X's mistaken understanding of q is nevertheless 
correct... and even X's lies about q are, by definition, true! :-)

> Many people claim to know of at least one Authority guaranteed to never
> lie and never be mistaken, but I've never seen a valid argument
> justifying their belief in the existence of that guarantee (and for many
> such Authorities, I've never even seen a valid argument for believing in
> the existence of that Authority, with or without guaranteed honesty and
> infallability).

ISO/IEC 9899 is such an Authority. Even where it lies, it tells the 
truth, and even where it is mistaken, it is correct until the 
application of a DR, whereupon it effortlessly changes its mind and is 
/still/ correct.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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Can a variable be both static and extern acidlategamer@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 04:23 -0700
  Re: Can a variable be both static and extern Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-24 11:40 +0000
    Re: Can a variable be both static and extern acidlategamer@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 04:54 -0700
      Re: Can a variable be both static and extern Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-24 12:09 +0000
        Re: Can a variable be both static and extern James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-24 11:45 -0400
          Re: Can a variable be both static and extern raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-03-25 22:27 +0000
    Re: Can a variable be both static and extern Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-24 11:35 -0700
  Re: Can a variable be both static and extern Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-03-24 12:11 +0000
  Re: Can a variable be both static and extern raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-03-24 12:14 +0000
    Re: Can a variable be both static and extern David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 17:11 +0100
      Re: Can a variable be both static and extern scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-24 16:22 +0000
        Re: Can a variable be both static and extern David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 17:38 +0100
      Re: Can a variable be both static and extern James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-24 12:23 -0400
        Re: Can a variable be both static and extern David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 17:41 +0100
          Re: Can a variable be both static and extern jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-03-24 09:57 -0700
          Re: Can a variable be both static and extern supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-24 10:38 -0700
          Re: Can a variable be both static and extern Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-24 18:24 +0000
            Re: Can a variable be both static and extern "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-25 10:47 -0400
              Re: Can a variable be both static and extern Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-25 16:48 +0000
                Re: Can a variable be both static and extern Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-25 10:31 -0700
                Re: Can a variable be both static and extern Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-25 18:23 +0000
                Re: Can a variable be both static and extern supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-25 12:28 -0700
                Re: Can a variable be both static and extern Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-03-25 19:50 +0000
                Re: Can a variable be both static and extern supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-25 13:20 -0700
                Re: Can a variable be both static and extern jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-03-25 10:44 -0700
                Re: Can a variable be both static and extern supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-25 12:13 -0700

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