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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #453426

Re: big drives

From Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups sci.electronics.design
Subject Re: big drives
Date 2017-03-24 11:55 -0700
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <ob3ptb$1m7$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <04fd29cc-ec06-4458-92a9-a6d0c493debf@googlegroups.com> <ob2a9o$7ll$1@dont-email.me> <d6175337-d1ba-4d17-826f-5b0837ca6789@googlegroups.com> <ob2h95$obg$1@dont-email.me> <59gadc55dm58qr5q9eqn5q67vabhblf949@4ax.com>

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On 3/24/2017 9:00 AM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 00:21:50 -0700, Don Y
> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 3/23/2017 11:08 PM, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> How much did you part with for the kit YOU were using in the mid 70's?
>>>
>>> Your reference was from 1970,
>>
>> No, the MANUAL that I referenced was from 1970.  My reference to the
>> *equipment* was:
>>     "My first *hard* disk had a capacity of 256K words..."
>> John Larkin referenced 1970 (feel free to check back up-thread)
>>
>>> when I was 10 years old and had just got a
>>> soldering gun and some plumber's solder for my birthday. (My parents were
>>> very supportive but didn't know much about radio. The debt I owe them has
>>> hopefully been paid to the next generation.)
>>>
>>> Soon after that point I had to save up a month's pocket money plus what I
>>> earned from extra chores to buy parts to build projects with.
>>
>> I built my first computers from "samples" begged from sales reps (while
>> working my way through school).  And, from bits of kit gifted to me by friends
>> who worked at firms like DEC (I could never afford to buy even USED kit of this
>> sort AND arrange to pay my tuition, rent, board, etc.)
>
> The first (and only) computer that I actually designed was two boards
> full of TTL. It had three instructions and a 20 KHz 4-phase clock.

My first "computing device" was a combination door lock built out of
relays, latching relays, time delay relays and mechanical sequencing
elements.  It was the size of a large microwave oven and housed in a
plywood box.

My first *analog* "computer" design was applied as a "football" game
(offensive and defensive "play" selectors, result logic to indicate
net gain/loss per play, accumulators to reflect position on the field, yards
to first down, etc).  It filled a 4'x8' sheet of plywood (and the back of
a stationwagon to get it to school).

My first *digital* computer was tonka-toy logic with bipolar ROMs as the
control store (easier and more versatile than instruction decoding *logic*),
16b address/data bus, 20MHz system clock (though the bus ran at 10MHz)
fabbed on wire-wrapped perf-board.

I also built one using 29xx devices -- but that was far more "traditional"
in design and capability (and more expensive to implement).

Since then, many "specialty" processors (application specific).  E.g., one
had an opcode that operated on 2D vectors and would do 4 (16b) multiplies,
a division and two adds in a single 1.6us instruction.

> Everybody should design a CPU just once, even as a mental activity.

I think the best part of such an "exercise" is the consideration towards
what "operators" would be appropriate to the intended application.  If
you just sit down and design a generic instruction set, it's just an
exercise in state machine design.  OTOH, if you think about how it will
be *applied* to a particular class of problems, then you have more freedom
to *imagine* the opcodes that will be of most use to the "programmer".

> My career has been blessed by working for companies (including my own)
> that had no coherent marketing.

More deliberate effort is required as a contractor; you have to make a point of
looking for different application domains requiring different skill sets, etc.
Otherwise, you get sucked into a rut where you're just repeating/refining
(your!) designs in perpetuity and never really learninig (much) new.

[OTOH, I know many folks who have been financially very successful with this
strategy.  But, they tend to be intellectually bored/stagnant/unimaginative.]

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Thread

big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-21 10:21 -0700
  Re: big drives bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-03-21 13:47 -0400
    Re: big drives George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-21 12:42 -0700
      Re: big drives dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-21 12:55 -0700
        Re: big drives George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-21 13:37 -0700
          Re: big drives bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-03-21 21:51 -0700
            Re: big drives George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-22 07:26 -0700
  Re: big drives Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-03-22 03:38 -0700
    Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-22 14:23 +0000
      Re: big drives David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-22 16:43 +0100
        Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-22 18:35 +0000
          Re: big drives David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-23 10:24 +0100
            Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-23 16:11 +0000
              Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-23 13:05 -0400
                Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-23 17:39 +0000
                Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-23 21:05 -0400
                Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-24 03:01 +0000
                Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-23 23:09 -0400
                Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-24 04:15 +0000
                Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-24 22:34 -0400
      Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 12:25 -0700
        Re: big drives dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt) - 2017-03-22 13:57 -0700
          Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 16:03 -0700
        Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-22 20:29 -0400
  Re: big drives tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-22 04:36 -0700
    Re: big drives Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2017-03-22 08:57 -0400
      Re: big drives Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-22 11:59 -0400
        Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-22 13:23 -0400
          Re: big drives Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-03-22 16:38 -0500
            Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-22 20:31 -0400
            Re: big drives gray_wolf <g_wolf@nospam.com> - 2017-03-23 20:59 -0500
            Re: big drives gray_wolf <g_wolf@nospam.com> - 2017-03-23 21:00 -0500
        Re: big drives Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2017-03-23 22:21 -0800
    Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 07:51 -0700
      Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-22 13:23 -0400
      Re: big drives Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2017-03-23 22:19 -0800
      Re: big drives tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 04:26 -0700
        Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 08:38 -0700
    Re: big drives Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-03-22 16:37 -0500
      Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 16:07 -0700
        Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 16:21 -0700
          Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 16:45 -0700
            Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 23:21 -0700
              Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 13:06 -0700
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 16:56 -0700
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 17:35 -0700
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 21:47 -0700
      Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 16:19 -0700
        Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 16:50 -0700
          Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 17:58 -0700
            Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 21:00 -0700
              Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 22:50 -0700
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-23 08:27 -0700
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 12:25 -0700
      Re: big drives tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 04:31 -0700
        Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 06:38 -0700
          Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 08:41 -0700
            Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 11:38 -0700
              Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 13:55 -0700
              Re: big drives tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 17:14 -0700
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 17:41 -0700
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 18:00 -0700
  Re: big drives Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-23 09:35 -0700
  Re: big drives "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-03-23 18:38 -0400
    Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 16:18 -0700
      Re: big drives Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-23 18:29 -0400
        Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 18:38 -0700
          Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 18:54 -0700
            Re: big drives pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 19:16 -0700
              Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 19:28 -0700
                Re: big drives pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 19:55 -0700
                Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-23 23:04 -0400
                Re: big drives pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 22:00 -0700
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 08:46 -0700
                Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-24 22:38 -0400
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 22:22 -0700
                Re: big drives pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 23:08 -0700
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 00:21 -0700
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 09:00 -0700
                Re: big drives David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 17:14 +0100
                Re: big drives tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 09:19 -0700
                Re: big drives David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 17:47 +0100
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 12:01 -0700
                Re: big drives Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-03-24 20:30 +0000
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 14:06 -0700
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 11:55 -0700
                Re: big drives "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-03-25 04:00 -0400
                Re: big drives upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-24 22:18 +0200
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 14:15 -0700
                Re: big drives Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-25 13:21 +0200
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-25 07:54 -0700
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-25 10:53 -0700
                Re: big drives upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-25 23:11 +0200
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-25 15:14 -0700
                Re: big drives upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-26 12:18 +0300
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-26 03:33 -0700
                Re: big drives Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-26 16:36 -0400
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-26 14:13 -0700
                Re: big drives Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-25 21:04 +0200
                Re: big drives pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 19:03 -0700
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 08:53 -0700
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 12:12 -0700
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 14:20 -0700
                Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-24 22:43 -0400
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 20:10 -0700
                Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-24 23:23 -0400
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 22:25 -0700
                Re: big drives Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-25 13:23 +0200
        Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-23 19:36 -0700
      Re: big drives upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-24 10:14 +0200
        Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 01:31 -0700
    Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-23 16:21 -0700
      Re: big drives "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-03-24 08:54 -0400

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