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Groups > comp.lang.c > #106130
| From | BartC <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: C Compilers QoI |
| Date | 2017-03-15 12:49 +0000 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <oabd2p$sm$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (3 earlier) <4fVxA.62281$Bp6.47291@fx36.iad> <74bd9556-d8eb-4507-8780-11df9311b5d2@googlegroups.com> <ibWxA.69903$k61.43609@fx05.iad> <c117efc1-24a2-40cb-bc44-0c8833dff448@googlegroups.com> <oaa93r$obp$1@z-news.wcss.wroc.pl> |
On 15/03/2017 02:32, antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl wrote:
> supercat@casperkitty.com wrote:
>>
>> Back when machines were smaller, it would have been considered obvious that
>> a quality compiler should be able to handle programs whose source tree would
>> be larger than the amount of RAM available to the compiler. Commonplace
>> computers have enough memory that compilers have less need to handle programs
>> whose source trees are bigger than memory, but if simple compilers can handle
>> such programs it shouldn't be unreasonable to expect that fancier ones should
>> be able to do so as well.
>
> My toy compiler (for a tiny pseudo Pascal) can compile Bart's 1000000
> lines in 15s. It generates assembler source, and assembly takes
> another 20s.
My own current compiler ['A'] (for a static language like C) took 107
seconds to produce .asm output on the equivalent 1Mloc. Not great, but I
have a good excuse, because the language it's written in is interpreted!
(And I wasn't concerned about efficiency at the time.)
However, assembling the resulting 6M lines of asm took 230 seconds. Now
this is crazy: presumably the assembler (Nasm) is written in C, and the
task of assembling (I have done it) is much simpler than compiling a
high level language, so why is it so slow? What on earth could it be doing?
I experimented with tokenising the 6M lines of asm source, and it took
only 1.3 seconds; so Nasm is spending another 228.7 seconds doing... who
knows?
> Generated code is awful: 12 machine instructions and
> four temporary variables per source line.
I used to do most of my coding in interpreted code, which is slower than
the worst native code you could possibly generate.
And it works perfectly well with the right mix (of interpreted vs.
compiled). So that might not be as important as you think.
Even 100% interpreted can work. Take that interpreted compiler 'A' I
mentioned above. It used to be byte-compiled with another interpreted
compiler. Byte-code compiling all modules (of 'A') took 1.8 seconds. All
interpreted. How long does it take to compile all modules of a typical C
compiler (other than tiny C with tiny C)?
Designing programs efficiently can be more important than the speed of
the language you're using.
BTW that byte-code compiler was given the ultra-fast treatment last year
by rewriting it in compiled code. Now, all modules of compiler 'A'
[23Kloc] can be byte-code compiled in as little as 15 ms. It's scary!
These exercises are useful because it puts the spotlight on cumbersome
tools such as Nasm and gcc and questions why there are so inefficient.
David Brown says gcc is doing invaluable analyses, but what analysis
could Nasm be doing on 1000000 repetitions of stuff like this:
; a:=b+c*d
mov A0, [Dframe+start.b]
mov A1, [Dframe+start.c]
imul A1, [Dframe+start.d]
add A0, A1
mov [Dframe+start.a], A0
> Now consider why one would submit 1000000 line
> function to the compiler.
That's very easy to answer. I didn't want to use a function at all, but
C doesn't allow statements outside a function. I hadn't expected it to
be a big deal. Is it?
--
bartc
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C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-14 13:01 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2017-03-14 06:16 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2017-03-14 06:42 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-03-14 06:56 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-14 15:58 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-03-14 09:22 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-14 16:54 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-14 10:24 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-14 17:58 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-14 14:12 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-14 16:34 -0500
Re: C Compilers QoI Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-14 17:36 -0500
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-14 23:06 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-14 16:20 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-03-15 02:32 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-15 12:49 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-15 11:56 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-15 23:09 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-16 18:17 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-16 11:47 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-17 07:50 +1300
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-16 12:59 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-16 21:24 +0100
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-16 14:23 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-17 11:30 +1300
Re: C Compilers QoI Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-17 11:38 +1300
Re: C Compilers QoI Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 05:07 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-17 20:26 +1300
Re: C Compilers QoI Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 07:59 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-16 16:14 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-16 22:54 -0500
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-17 09:01 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-26 14:16 +1300
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-26 14:19 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-26 22:43 +0100
Re: C Compilers QoI GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-27 01:28 +0200
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-26 22:07 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-27 11:28 +0100
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-27 07:38 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-27 16:23 +0100
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-27 08:55 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-27 17:01 +0100
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-27 10:03 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-27 17:58 +0200
Re: C Compilers QoI already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2017-03-27 03:54 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-27 08:46 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-27 17:47 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-27 11:48 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-27 15:37 -0500
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-27 14:46 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-27 20:28 -0500
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-28 01:18 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-28 18:24 -0500
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-29 07:40 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-29 17:05 +0200
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-29 11:07 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-03-31 04:04 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-31 10:53 +0100
Re: C Compilers QoI Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-03-31 07:35 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-31 08:07 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-31 07:54 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-31 07:43 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-17 11:21 +1300
Re: C Compilers QoI Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-17 11:24 +1300
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-16 22:15 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-17 12:31 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2017-03-16 15:24 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-16 16:03 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-17 12:39 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2017-03-17 08:27 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-03-16 01:35 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-16 02:18 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-03-18 00:45 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-18 13:12 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-03-18 20:31 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-18 17:31 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-16 09:22 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2017-03-24 16:13 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-24 12:32 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-24 22:13 -0500
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-25 13:05 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-27 15:44 -0500
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-27 14:51 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-27 20:31 -0500
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-14 17:26 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-03-15 12:02 -0500
Re: C Compilers QoI David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-14 15:00 +0100
Re: C Compilers QoI already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2017-03-14 07:36 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-14 15:57 +0100
Re: C Compilers QoI Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-14 08:11 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-29 23:51 -0500
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-14 15:28 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-14 21:41 +0100
Re: C Compilers QoI Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-14 09:26 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-14 18:23 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-14 12:05 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2017-03-14 09:35 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-14 17:08 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2017-03-14 10:24 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-14 17:34 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2017-03-14 11:55 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-14 19:03 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-14 19:06 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2017-03-14 12:10 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-14 21:14 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2017-03-14 14:42 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-14 14:53 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-14 23:20 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-03-15 02:43 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-14 19:39 +0100
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-14 19:10 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-03-14 19:29 +0000
Re: C Compilers QoI Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2017-03-15 09:27 +0100
Re: C Compilers QoI ed_davis2@yahoo.com - 2017-03-16 15:10 -0700
Re: C Compilers QoI BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-16 23:19 +0000
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