Re: Looking for recommendations

Newsgroups	rec.arts.sf.written
From	djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject	Re: Looking for recommendations
Message-ID	<oDKvvx.1ovo@kithrup.com> (permalink)
Date	2016-09-16 03:47 +0000
References	<4ae9abfe-2486-40ed-8902-18f614ebe2bd@googlegroups.com> <slrnntlkud.p5c.alan@video.sabir.com> <2e5f4486-4837-4536-a363-f1fd0ba5eb60@googlegroups.com> <nrf05m$2rp0$1@grapevine.csail.mit.edu>
Organization	Kithrup Enterprises, Ld.

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In article <nrf05m$2rp0$1@grapevine.csail.mit.edu>,
Garrett Wollman <wollman@bimajority.org> wrote:
>In article <2e5f4486-4837-4536-a363-f1fd0ba5eb60@googlegroups.com>,
>Joe Bernstein  <joe@sfbooks.com> wrote:
>
>[Graydon Saunders]
>
>>I haven't read any of his books yet (though it's sounding increasingly 
>>like I should), but I suspect most people still reading rasfw were 
>>around when he was here in the mid-1990s, posting in a very 
>>distinctive style.  I have a hard time believing he came up with a 
>>*different* "style that needs some getting used to" for the books.  
>>Did he build his fiction around how he writes?
>
>I don't have any reference for his Usenet career, even though I was
>definitely around during the relevant time period; I recognized his
>name as being loosely associated with Jo Walton (and in fact there is
>Saunders poetry quoted in /The King's Peace/).
>
>His style I would describe as somewhat abrupt, perhaps even mercurial.
>Not terse, necessarily, but he doesn't go in for infodumps or "as you
>know Bob"-type explanations -- so the reader is asked to deduce a lot
>from the context.  (Like, for example, the connotation of using
>gendered rather than neutral pronouns.)  When there's an extended
>passage of explanation, it's presented as part of a dialogue where the
>characters involved are arguing about how something ought to work, or
>where one of the characters genuinely wouldn't have a reason to know
>what's being explained.  Lots of things aren't explained at all in the
>first book which become clearer after the next two.  Sometimes the
>dialogue suddenly shifts gears for no obvious reason.
>
>I think the Commonweal books ask rather more of the reader than your
>typical fantasy novel, and that's a good thing.  The notion that you
>can have a society that is at its root strongly collectivist and still
>vehemently anti-coercion may bounce some libertarians; I don't know
>whether Saunders has any plans to address this in future novels.  (You
>can see some hints of it in how Mulch feels when asked to perform his
>10% service time obligation.)

Well, for my part, I get seriously enthused about Graydon's
style.  Back when he was posting to USENET, I told him, "You are
Greer Ilene Gilman's long-lost brother and Gerald Manley
Hopkins's nephew, AICMFP," and he said (approximately) "Gee
thanks, but I haven't read much of either."

Graydon's style is like one of the plates from the Book of Kells,
intricate and not to be taken in at a glance.  His world-building
has no flies on it, either.  You can't skim Graydon, you have to
read carefully ... and you will be rewarded.

One of the many interesting things about the Commonweal world is
that it is inhabited by lots of "people" -- who consist of at
least a dozen different *species*, some of which can be
distinguished (IIRC) only by eye color.  Rather like the recently
discovered four species of giraffe.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

Thread

Looking for recommendations Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-13 16:07 -0700
  Re: Looking for recommendations "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-09-13 19:26 -0400
    Re: Looking for recommendations Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-13 17:23 -0700
      Re: Looking for recommendations "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-09-14 09:56 -0400
        Re: Looking for recommendations Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-14 08:40 -0700
        Re: Looking for recommendations Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-09-14 22:50 -0600
          Re: Looking for recommendations "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-09-15 07:24 -0400
            Re: Looking for recommendations Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-09-15 21:12 -0600
              Re: Looking for recommendations "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-09-16 06:15 -0400
                Re: Looking for recommendations Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-09-16 08:40 -0600
                Re: Looking for recommendations "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-09-16 11:54 -0400
                Re: Looking for recommendations ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-09-16 16:30 +0000
      Re: Looking for recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-14 14:24 -0400
  Looking for recommendations "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-13 17:46 -0700
    Looking for recommendations "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-13 17:52 -0700
    Re: Looking for recommendations Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-14 08:45 -0700
      Re: Looking for recommendations Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2016-09-16 03:59 +0100
        Re: Looking for recommendations Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2016-09-15 20:17 -0700
  Re: Looking for recommendations Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 21:00 -0500
    Re: Looking for recommendations Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-14 10:10 -0700
      Re: Looking for recommendations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-09-14 17:49 +0000
  Re: Looking for recommendations ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-09-14 04:05 +0000
    Re: Looking for recommendations Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-14 10:15 -0700
      Re: Looking for recommendations Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2016-09-14 15:50 -0700
        Re: Looking for recommendations ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-09-14 23:01 +0000
          Re: Looking for recommendations Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> - 2016-09-14 22:44 -0600
    Re: Looking for recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-16 01:41 -0400
  Re: Looking for recommendations jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2016-09-14 14:24 +0000
    Re: Looking for recommendations Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-14 10:12 -0700
      Re: Looking for recommendations jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2016-09-14 18:31 +0000
        Re: Looking for recommendations Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-09-14 12:53 -0700
          Re: Looking for recommendations "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-09-14 16:04 -0400
            Re: Looking for recommendations Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-09-14 15:11 -0700
          Re: Looking for recommendations Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-09-14 14:45 -0700
          Re: Looking for recommendations jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2016-09-14 22:04 +0000
            Re: Looking for recommendations "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 21:48 -0400
          Re: Looking for recommendations Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> - 2016-09-21 08:18 -0600
        Re: Looking for recommendations Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-14 15:23 -0700
    Re: Looking for recommendations Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-09-15 10:28 +0800
  Re: Looking for recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-14 14:43 -0400
    Re: Looking for recommendations Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-14 15:20 -0700
      Re: Looking for recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-14 19:50 -0400
        Re: Looking for recommendations "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-09-15 07:22 -0400
          Re: Looking for recommendations Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 14:50 +0200
            Re: Looking for recommendations "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-09-15 10:09 -0400
              Re: Looking for recommendations ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-09-15 14:16 +0000
                Re: Looking for recommendations "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-09-15 10:50 -0400
                Re: Looking for recommendations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-09-15 15:02 +0000
          Re: Looking for recommendations Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-15 17:07 +0300
          Re: Looking for recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-15 12:59 -0400
  Re: Looking for recommendations wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2016-09-14 22:19 +0000
    Re: Looking for recommendations djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-14 22:32 +0000
      Re: Looking for recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-14 19:53 -0400
        Re: Looking for recommendations Chris Buckley <alan@sabir.com> - 2016-09-15 16:58 +0000
          Re: Looking for recommendations Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-09-15 11:26 -0700
            Re: Looking for recommendations wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2016-09-15 20:26 +0000
              Re: Looking for recommendations Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2016-09-16 04:07 +0100
                Re: Looking for recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-16 01:39 -0400
                Re: Looking for recommendations David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-17 01:30 -0500
                Re: Looking for recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-17 02:56 -0400
                Re: Looking for recommendations Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2016-09-17 12:32 +0100
                Re: Looking for recommendations David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-18 01:05 -0500
                Re: Looking for recommendations wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2016-09-18 06:12 +0000
                Re: Looking for recommendations wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2016-09-18 06:22 +0000
                Re: Looking for recommendations Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2016-09-18 12:44 +0100
                Re: Looking for recommendations Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2016-09-18 10:06 -0700
                Re: Looking for recommendations wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2016-09-18 17:31 +0000
                Re: Looking for recommendations David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-19 09:56 -0500
                Re: Looking for recommendations "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-09-18 16:34 -0400
                Re: Looking for recommendations David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-19 09:53 -0500
                Re: Looking for recommendations ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-09-19 15:18 +0000
                Re: Looking for recommendations Bill Dugan <wkdugan@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-17 08:57 -0700
                Re: Looking for recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-17 14:48 -0400
                Re: Looking for recommendations Bill Dugan <wkdugan@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-17 11:51 -0700
                Re: Looking for recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-17 17:29 -0400
                Re: Looking for recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-17 17:42 -0400
                Re: Looking for recommendations wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2016-09-17 22:18 +0000
                Re: Looking for recommendations wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2016-09-17 19:01 +0000
                Re: Looking for recommendations David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-18 01:12 -0500
                Re: Looking for recommendations David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-20 19:04 -0500
              Re: Looking for recommendations djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-16 03:47 +0000
                Re: Looking for recommendations Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2016-09-16 11:39 +0100
                Re: Looking for recommendations goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2016-09-16 20:58 +0000
              Re: Looking for recommendations David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-17 01:15 -0500
            Re: Looking for recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-15 17:02 -0400
          Re: Looking for recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-15 16:56 -0400
  Re: Looking for recommendations Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 23:48 -0500

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