Re: Language feature selection

From	Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.arch.embedded
Subject	Re: Language feature selection
Date	2017-03-10 12:33 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<o9uuti$a2o$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(1 earlier) <o9o07h$1g6j$1@gioia.aioe.org> <o9spjo$fg$1@dont-email.me> <iitwA.85025$ft5.80368@fx16.am4> <o9uqr5$qmh$1@dont-email.me> <aSCwA.83766$8b6.51029@fx19.am4>

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On 3/10/2017 12:09 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:

>>>> The source code itself doesn't need to know about where variables go[1].
>>>>
>>>> Its part of the responsibility of tools that are invoked later
>>>> in the build cycle.
>>>
>>> This is a philosophical difference.
>>>
>>> If something is important to the correct operation of
>>> the program, then I like it to be visible in the source
>>> code. A useful benefit is that the information is easily
>>> found and analysed by the IDEs and/or other source code
>>> manipulation tools around.
>>
>> I guess it depends on what you consider "source code".
>> How do you treat makefiles, linker scripts, etc.?  Clearly
>> they are all important to the *intended* operation of
>> the program -- as are the actual tools, themselves.
>
> Keep it simple...
>
> Source code => as defined in the language standard.

So, you're requiring everything "that is important to the correct
operation of the program" to reside *in* that "source code", NOT
handled by the linkage editor (?)

[The linkage editor is outside the scope of the "language standard"]

> If something is tool-specific, then it is not part
> of the source code. Hence compiler arguments are
> not part of the source code.
>
> Code inspection tools such as browsers, analysers,
> and compliance checkers work on the source code.
> That's important.
>
>> How much of this cruft do you clutter the "sources" with
>> in the attempt to ensure they accompany the sources?
>> What about applications wherein multiple languages are
>> combined; how do you nail down the "implementation defined"
>> behavior of their interfaces?  What order will your Java/C/Python/foo
>> function build its stack frame?  How will your FORTRAN/Pascal/ASM/bar
>> module interface to it??
>>
>>> In the same vein, in C I dislike having correct code
>>> operation being dependent on combinations of command
>>> line compiler arguments.
>>
>> There's usually a difference between "correct" and "desired".
>
> Not really.
>
> If there is a distinction between "desired" and
> "correct" then I can instantly rewrite the program
> to be much faster and much smaller.

"Desired" implies some acknowledgement of the application and tools
involved.

Ages ago, it wasn't uncommon to have applications that did
bank switching, overlays, etc.  WHERE things resided was
a crucial part of how they would work IN THAT ENVIRONMENT.
E.g., if the trampoline code could ever be mapped *out* of
the address space, then the bank-switching feature came to an
unceremonious halt.

Move the exact same application to a machine with a larger
physical address space, tweek the linker script accordingly
and the code is still "correct".

In the first case, where things are located can also have a marked
impact on size and space ("desired" behavior); by avoiding the
overhead of "distant" references for those things that can (or must)
benefit from the "near" efficiencies.

>> It's unfortunate when "correct" relies on command line
>> arguments to resolve some "implementation defined behavior"
>> with which the compiler could, otherwise, take liberties.
>
> That is always the case with C/C++, unless the program
> uses no separately compiled libraries and turns off
> all optimisations.

No.  You can discipline yourself to avoid relying on undocumented
behaviors or "letting the compiler choose" (among possible
interpretations).  Of course, writing PORTABLE code under those
constraints is considerably harder (how many folks actually
worry about exceeding the implementation-specific limits for
particular data types?  Or, verify that their code will continue
to function properly *if* those limits are considerably higher
than "nominal" from the Standard?)

> Other languages are much better in that regard.

Sure.  But that comes at the expense of either requiring more
work of the processor (given that the language isn't tailored
to a particular processor) *or* rendering extra processor
capabilities moot.

[E.g., imagine all ints were 16b and you developed an application
on a 128b processor in <whatever> language.  Or, that all ints were
128b and you wanted to run the application on a 16b processor.  etc.]

>> Likewise, if the order and locations at which objects
>> can be bound can arbitrarily be altered and affect operation
>
> That is just one small consideration in this context.

Of course!  I was merely drawing attention to the fact (which could
easily have been overlooked) that *order* can affect the DESIRED
operation (e.g., performance).

>> [These should be eschewed, IMO]
>>
>> (This is an issue on many processors, without concern for the
>> actual I/O's)
>>
>> Of course, there's no way for the tool to know/enforce these constraints
>> other than a suitable note to the future developer!
>
> And that's undesirable.

But largely unavoidable.  Its also undesireable for developers to
write crappy code, fail to document their algorithms/implementations,
fail to include comprehensive test suites, etc.  But, there is a
point at which you have to assume "professional" means more than
"paid to do a job".

>>>>> It is language independent and very easy to add to compilers without
>>>>> changing the basic form of the language.
>>>>
>>>> it very nearly destroys the portability of code that uses it...
>>>
>>> That seems unimportant to me. I cannot think of a
>>> reason why you would need to nail down addresses
>>> in portable code. Of course "portable" is not a
>>> black and white concept!
>>
>> Therein lies the rub.  Code can be "portable" yet still tied to
>> a particular processor (but a different implementation).  E.g.,
>> reset_processor()...
>
> More than just a processor, consider different
> boards with the same processor.

I addressed "different boards" with my "different implementation"
reference.  E.g., relocating a UART to a different location in
(memory/IO) space, altering the "sense" of the address lines to
that device (i.e., so consecutive registers are NOT in consecutive
locations *or* are presented in an entirely different order),
scrambling the data lines (e.g., so 0x53 is returned when the character
'5' is received), etc.

The "reset_processor()" reference intending to suggest the fact that
most processors "come out of reset" at a particular (fixed!) point in
their address space, regardless of the rest of the board around them.

[This sort of thing is increasingly common with SoC targets where
many of the design choices (e.g., address map) have been taken away
from the *hardware* designer]

>>> Any examples?

Thread

Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-05 16:03 -0700
  Re: Language feature selection Wouter van Ooijen <wouter@voti.nl> - 2017-03-06 08:04 +0100
    Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-07 10:31 -0700
      Re: Language feature selection Wouter van Ooijen <wouter@voti.nl> - 2017-03-07 23:29 +0100
        Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-08 02:49 -0700
          Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-08 13:18 +0100
            Re: Language feature selection Wouter van Ooijen <wouter@voti.nl> - 2017-03-08 16:58 +0100
            Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-08 10:35 -0700
              Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-08 22:07 +0100
  Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-06 08:40 +0100
    Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-06 10:31 +0100
    Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-06 08:47 -0700
      Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-06 21:33 +0100
        Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-06 13:44 -0700
          Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-07 12:24 +0100
            Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-07 09:34 -0700
              Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-08 10:14 +0100
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-08 10:37 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-08 22:09 +0100
    Re: Language feature selection Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-06 22:50 +0200
      Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-07 12:31 +0100
    Re: Language feature selection rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-07 14:45 -0500
  Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-06 08:39 +0000
    Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-06 08:39 -0700
      Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-06 17:27 +0000
        Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-06 13:30 -0700
  Re: Language feature selection Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2017-03-06 11:11 +0200
    Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-06 13:38 -0700
      Re: Language feature selection Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2017-03-07 12:18 +0200
        Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-07 10:28 -0700
  Re: Language feature selection George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-06 13:33 -0500
    Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-06 13:36 -0700
      Re: Language feature selection George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-06 22:15 -0500
        Re: Language feature selection George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-06 22:22 -0500
        Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-07 00:27 -0700
          Re: Language feature selection George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-08 12:20 -0500
            Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-08 11:23 -0700
              Re: Language feature selection George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-10 13:43 -0500
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-10 16:49 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-11 04:17 -0500
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-11 12:33 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-12 18:08 -0400
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-12 17:25 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-15 21:05 -0400
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-16 17:23 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-17 23:59 -0400
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-17 23:25 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-18 12:05 +0200
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-18 04:04 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-18 04:39 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-18 03:55 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-18 16:00 +0200
                Re: Language feature selection Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-11 16:35 -0600
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-11 15:39 -0700
  Re: Language feature selection Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-03-06 18:59 +0000
    Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-06 12:36 -0700
  Re: Language feature selection Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2017-03-07 19:02 +0000
    Re: Language feature selection Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-03-07 19:18 +0000
      Re: Language feature selection Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-03-07 19:19 +0000
    Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-07 12:38 -0700
  Re: Language feature selection Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-03-07 22:10 -0600
    Re: Language feature selection Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-07 20:35 -0800
      Re: Language feature selection Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-03-08 20:43 -0600
    Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-07 23:48 -0700
      Re: Language feature selection Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-03-08 20:48 -0600
        Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-08 21:15 -0700
        Re: Language feature selection Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-09 01:33 -0800
        Re: Language feature selection Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-03-09 14:47 +0000
          Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-09 16:40 +0100
            Re: Language feature selection Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-03-09 16:15 +0000
              Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-09 22:04 +0100
                Re: Language feature selection John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2017-03-10 07:46 +0000
                Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-10 13:21 +0100
              Re: Language feature selection Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-09 17:57 -0600
                Re: Language feature selection Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-10 11:16 +0200
        Re: Language feature selection Jacob Sparre Andersen <jacob@jacob-sparre.dk> - 2017-03-10 20:39 +0100
          Re: Language feature selection Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-10 13:32 -0800
            Re: Language feature selection Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2017-03-11 14:58 +0200
              Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-13 13:02 +0100
    Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-08 10:46 +0100
      Re: Language feature selection Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-03-08 20:33 -0600
        Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-09 11:08 +0100
          Re: Language feature selection Britt <britt.snodgrass@gmail.com> - 2017-03-09 07:04 -0800
            Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-09 16:36 +0100
              Re: Language feature selection Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-03-09 16:11 +0000
              Re: Language feature selection Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-03-09 12:06 -0600
              Re: Language feature selection Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2017-03-09 19:26 +0100
                Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-09 22:08 +0100
            Re: Language feature selection Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2017-03-09 19:04 +0000
              Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-09 15:34 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-09 15:40 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2017-03-10 14:19 +0000
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-10 11:10 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-10 11:49 -0700
        Re: Language feature selection Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-09 18:00 -0600
    Re: Language feature selection Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-09 17:54 -0600
      Re: Language feature selection Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-03-09 18:54 -0600
        Re: Language feature selection Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-03-10 04:07 +0000
          Re: Language feature selection Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-03-10 08:07 -0600
        Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-10 13:59 +0100
      Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-10 08:17 +0000
        Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-10 11:24 -0700
          Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-10 19:09 +0000
            Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-10 12:33 -0700
              Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-10 23:25 +0000
                Re: Language feature selection George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-10 20:22 -0500
                Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-11 01:32 +0000
                Re: Language feature selection Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-10 18:16 -0800
                Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-11 09:59 +0000
                Re: Language feature selection Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-11 02:23 -0800
                Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-11 11:13 +0000
                Re: Language feature selection George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-11 14:28 -0500
                Re: Language feature selection George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-11 17:20 -0500
                Re: Language feature selection George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-12 16:26 -0400
                Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-12 21:46 +0100
                Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-12 23:15 +0000
                Re: Language feature selection Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-03-13 14:14 -0400
                Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-13 18:48 +0000
                Re: Language feature selection "Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com> - 2017-03-13 15:17 -0500
                Re: Language feature selection Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2017-03-13 23:17 +0200
                Re: Language feature selection "Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com> - 2017-03-13 17:27 -0500
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-13 17:10 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2017-03-14 10:11 +0200
                Re: Language feature selection "Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com> - 2017-03-14 12:23 -0500
                Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-14 13:27 +0100
                Re: Language feature selection Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-03-14 13:30 -0400
                Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-14 22:03 +0100
                Re: Language feature selection Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-03-14 17:24 -0400
                Re: Language feature selection Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-03-11 07:19 -0600
                Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-11 19:43 +0000
                Re: Language feature selection Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-03-12 09:28 -0600
                Re: Language feature selection George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-12 15:15 -0400
                Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-12 19:38 +0000
                Re: Language feature selection Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-10 18:08 -0800
                Re: Language feature selection George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-11 04:22 -0500
                Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-11 10:02 +0000
                Re: Language feature selection Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-11 02:22 -0800
                Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-11 11:07 +0000
          Re: Language feature selection Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-03-10 14:30 -0600
            Re: Language feature selection Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-10 13:37 -0800
              Re: Language feature selection Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-03-10 16:30 -0600
                Re: Language feature selection Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-10 18:14 -0800
                Re: Language feature selection Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-03-11 07:46 -0600
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-11 12:53 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-03-12 09:45 -0600
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-12 11:56 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2017-03-12 21:05 +0200
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-12 14:40 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2017-03-13 00:36 +0200
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-12 17:00 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-13 16:50 -0500
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-13 17:08 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-13 20:51 -0500
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-13 20:31 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-14 21:45 -0500
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-14 21:16 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-11 16:40 -0600
            Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-10 15:10 -0700
              Re: Language feature selection Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-03-10 16:42 -0600
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-10 17:02 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-11 00:46 +0000
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-11 13:05 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-11 21:58 +0000
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-11 15:19 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-11 23:27 +0000
                Re: Language feature selection Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-03-10 20:14 -0600
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-11 12:16 -0700
        Re: Language feature selection Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2017-03-10 20:40 +0100
          Re: Language feature selection Wouter van Ooijen <wouter@voti.nl> - 2017-03-10 22:28 +0100
  Re: Language feature selection Jacob Sparre Andersen <jacob@jacob-sparre.dk> - 2017-03-10 20:03 +0100
    Re: Language feature selection Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-03-10 19:48 +0000
      Re: Language feature selection Jacob Sparre Andersen <jacob@jacob-sparre.dk> - 2017-03-13 21:25 +0100
    Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-10 13:03 -0700
      Re: Language feature selection Jacob Sparre Andersen <jacob@jacob-sparre.dk> - 2017-03-13 21:40 +0100
        Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-13 14:35 -0700
          Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-14 01:06 +0000
            Re: Language feature selection Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-13 19:23 -0700
              Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-14 08:48 +0000
                Re: Language feature selection Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-14 02:14 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-14 09:33 +0000
                Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-14 09:21 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-17 06:01 -0500
                Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-17 11:39 +0000
                Re: Language feature selection Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-17 07:16 -0500
                Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-17 13:49 +0000
                Re: Language feature selection Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-17 11:03 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-17 19:21 +0100
                Re: Language feature selection Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-17 11:34 -0700
                Re: Language feature selection David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-17 20:26 +0100
                Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-17 20:07 +0000
                Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-17 20:29 +0000
                Re: Language feature selection Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-17 19:19 -0500
                Re: Language feature selection Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-18 08:18 +0000
            Re: Language feature selection Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2017-03-14 21:20 +0100
  Re: Language feature selection jim.brakefield@ieee.org - 2017-03-10 18:46 -0800
    Re: Language feature selection Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2017-03-11 15:41 +0200
      Re: Language feature selection jim.brakefield@ieee.org - 2017-03-11 14:20 -0800
        Re: Language feature selection upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-12 00:54 +0200
          Re: Language feature selection jim.brakefield@ieee.org - 2017-03-12 18:08 -0700
            Re: Language feature selection upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-13 23:36 +0200
          Re: Language feature selection Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-13 17:03 -0500
    Re: Language feature selection Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-11 14:21 -0700

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