Re: Stupid design decisions

From	Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.arch.embedded
Subject	Re: Stupid design decisions
Date	2017-02-03 21:48 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<o73mcb$dlu$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(8 earlier) <o70jvf$fus$1@dont-email.me> <1jb89cl5h0jli3naf1cnadr6bb3b44ga3u@4ax.com> <o71vmm$qm1$1@dont-email.me> <o72dmb$hgt$1@dont-email.me> <o73i7k$1hs$1@dont-email.me>

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On 2/3/2017 8:40 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
> Don Y wrote:
>> On 2/3/2017 6:18 AM, Les Cargill wrote:
>>>> The combination smoke+CO alarms seem to be more in the $40-60 range.
>>>> The Nest Protect (smoke+CO+WiFi) is $99.
>>>
>>> Hasn't Google essentially savaged Nest already? I just read a thing
>>> about it a year or so back and wrote the entire line off.
>>
>> Sounds familiar.  But, other players are entering the market for
>> other, more traditional, reasons.  (AFAICT, Google wanted a beachhead
>> to gather more "intelligence" about the customer; they might now have
>> realized that this is not the way to do so -- "media consumption"
>> is probably a more effective mechanism)
>
> I don't are what their problem is. They've rendered themselves low in
> reliability because of it.

IMO, this is the problem with the trend towards "selling services"
and "ongoing relationships" -- instead of just selling a PRODUCT
that has a defined functionality (that can be assessed at time of
purchase).

>> Then, hope you NOTICE the fact that
>> someone else has turned it on in the time following -- but preceding
>> when you retire for the evening ("Ah, better check the lights again
>> to see which ones are on *NOW*...")
>
> But I could see where an "Alexa, check the lights for me" thing might help with
> that.

Yes -- but now you're looking for an *agent* -- who acts on your
behalf.  Not just an extension of the "power cord".

>> Yeah, you may find use for the feature if you live alone and want
>> to keep the indoor temperature, lighting, etc. in a "deep sleep"
>> sort of state until JUST before you return home from work/whatever.
>
> It's anything but clear that that will save money, and by extension
> anything else. Charging a big thermal mass always costs more
> than keeping it regulated.

That depends on what else impacts that mass.  Surely, if I'm going to
be out of the house during the peak cooling load -- but *returning*
just as outdoor temperatures become "more reasonable" -- then it
is silly to try to maintain the house at a cool/comfortable
temperature and humidity throughout the day when I could QUICKLY
bring it to a comfortable setting just by venting the house to the
cooler evening air.

Likewise, silly to maintain the indoor temperature overnight
(in winter) at a "comfortable for waking uses" level when you
can, instead, bring the house up to that temperature in a
matter of minutes (GFA).

Do you keep the house illuminated when unoccupied?  etc.

>> But, it's unlikely that you'll want to do much more than "turn
>> the heat up" before heading home.  Or, turn on the spa so it is up
>> to temperature before you need it.
>>
>> And, not likely that your schedule will vary significantly from
>> day to day that this couldn't be automated (minimizing the value
>> of "remote control").  What if you FORGET??
>>
>> Scant few of us live in homes that are so large that it's easier
>> (more convenient) to open an app to verify that the garage door
>> is closed vs. just walking over to someplace where you can
>> directly/indirectly observe its state.
>
> I've gotten to where I sort of checklist everything so it's in a known
> state before it goes out of my sight. But it's not that far to walk to
> the garage.

You're *capable* of making that "short trip" as well as REMEMBERING
to make it!

If you'd a physical/mental disability/deficiency, that might not be
the case.  How do you verify the doors are all closed AND LOCKED
without physically inspecting them?  The lights off without examining
them?  The stove/oven off, etc.

I have a pot of water HEATING on the stove almost continually to
address my "hot tea" habit.  It's so "automatic" that I forget
whether or not the stovetop is ON, presently -- or not.  I
rely on a "whistling" tea kettle to alert me to the fact:
     "Ah, I must have left the stove on cuz I can hear the kettle
     whistling..."

Frequently, I'll hear the kettle when not expecting it -- simply
because I put it on and then wandered off to continue my
current activity, got preoccupied with that activity and was
only reminded of the kettle by the subsequent "whistle".

So common is this that my "checklist" before driving away from the
house is:
- verify garage door has been closed and has ACTUALLY closed
- make sure the stovetop is off!

Being able to remotely examine these states and/or control them
only addresses part of the problem; if I *FORGET* to examine
them "locally", am I really more likely to examine them
REMOTELY??  Wouldn't it be wiser for an AGENT to notice that
I've left the house and take corrective actions on my behalf?

Thread

Stupid design decisions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-05 21:14 -0600
  Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-01-06 12:27 -0700
  Re: Stupid design decisions rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 14:51 -0500
  Re: Stupid design decisions Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-01-06 20:22 +0000
    Re: Stupid design decisions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-01-08 17:11 +0100
      Re: Stupid design decisions rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-08 17:10 -0500
        Re: Stupid design decisions Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2017-01-09 11:30 +0200
          Re: Stupid design decisions rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-09 04:58 -0500
            Re: Stupid design decisions Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2017-01-09 13:10 +0200
            Re: Stupid design decisions Clive Arthur <cliveta@nowaytoday.co.uk> - 2017-01-09 11:15 +0000
            Re: Stupid design decisions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-01-09 13:48 +0100
        Re: Stupid design decisions Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-08 17:40 -0500
      Re: Stupid design decisions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-10 21:42 -0600
  Re: Stupid design decisions Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-01-06 15:33 -0600
  Re: Stupid design decisions Ed Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-01-30 12:28 -0800
    Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-01-30 13:52 -0700
      Re: Stupid design decisions Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-01-30 20:55 +0000
        Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-01-30 14:18 -0700
          Re: Stupid design decisions Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-01-30 21:20 +0000
            Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-01-30 14:31 -0700
              Re: Stupid design decisions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-30 23:37 -0600
                Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-01-30 23:20 -0700
                Re: Stupid design decisions Ed Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-01-30 22:29 -0800
                Re: Stupid design decisions rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-31 02:10 -0500
        Re: Stupid design decisions Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2017-01-30 22:30 +0100
        Re: Stupid design decisions rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-31 02:00 -0500
      Re: Stupid design decisions Ed Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-01-30 22:18 -0800
        Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-01-30 23:36 -0700
        Re: Stupid design decisions jladasky@itu.edu - 2017-01-31 16:01 -0800
          Re: Stupid design decisions Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2017-02-02 09:47 +0000
            Re: Stupid design decisions rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-02 06:35 -0500
              Re: Stupid design decisions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-02 16:26 -0600
                Re: Stupid design decisions rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-02 19:49 -0500
                Re: Stupid design decisions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-03 01:27 -0600
                Re: Stupid design decisions Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-02-03 07:18 -0600
                Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-03 10:14 -0700
                Re: Stupid design decisions Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@highlandtechnology.invalid> - 2017-02-03 10:12 -0800
                Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-03 14:10 -0700
                Re: Stupid design decisions Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2017-02-04 11:15 +0000
                Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-04 13:52 -0700
                Re: Stupid design decisions Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-02-05 04:36 +0000
                Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-04 21:55 -0700
                Re: Stupid design decisions Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2017-02-05 21:39 +0000
                Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-05 15:55 -0700
                Re: Stupid design decisions Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2017-02-05 23:38 +0000
                Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-05 21:25 -0700
                Re: Stupid design decisions Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-02-04 17:26 -0600
                Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-04 16:56 -0700
                Re: Stupid design decisions Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-02-03 21:40 -0600
                Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-03 21:48 -0700
                Re: Stupid design decisions Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2017-02-04 11:03 +0000
                Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-04 13:00 -0700
                Re: Stupid design decisions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-05 01:49 -0600
                Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-05 10:43 -0700
                Re: Stupid design decisions Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2017-02-05 21:31 +0000
                Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-05 15:22 -0700
                Re: Stupid design decisions Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2017-02-05 23:24 +0000
                Re: Stupid design decisions Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-02-06 03:51 +0000
                Re: Stupid design decisions Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 10:11 +0000
                Re: Stupid design decisions rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 20:07 -0500
                Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-05 21:08 -0700
                Re: Stupid design decisions mac <acolvin@efunct.com> - 2017-02-04 14:42 +0000
                Re: Stupid design decisions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-05 02:00 -0600
                Re: Stupid design decisions Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-05 09:11 +0000
                Re: Stupid design decisions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-05 03:51 -0600
                Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-05 11:10 -0700
                Re: Stupid design decisions Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-05 22:22 +0000
                Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-05 16:01 -0700
                Re: Stupid design decisions Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-05 11:03 -0700
    Re: Stupid design decisions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-30 23:44 -0600

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