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Groups > comp.lang.c > #98011

Re: Counted strings

From David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Counted strings
Date 2016-12-05 16:10 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <o23vu2$eaq$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (4 earlier) <c9776b38-16b6-41be-aa8a-44607fcbb211@googlegroups.com> <o21q7l$tua$1@dont-email.me> <1e048fa0-7c91-430e-8332-f07e2495812d@googlegroups.com> <o23cj0$9l8$1@dont-email.me> <2cdca7c0-657d-4d61-8457-94ef01f3f4cf@googlegroups.com>

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On 05/12/16 14:51, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Monday, December 5, 2016 at 4:40:07 AM UTC-5, David Brown wrote:
>> On 05/12/16 01:49, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> David Brown wrote:
>>>> (Have you changed newsreaders?  Your posts now seem to be without
>>>> any context or attributions, which is not a good thing.)
>>>
>>> It's a new Kindle Fire HD.  It's a little weird.  An Android device,
>>> but not Googleish, more Amazonish.  I keep making mistakes, forgetting
>>> to do things or not do things required / not required on my other
>>> devices.
>>>
>>> I'll get it sorted out soon.  Please bear with me until then.
>>
>> No problem.  And you included the context and attributions here, so I
>> guess that means you have it sorted out already.  I just wanted to make
>> you aware of the issue, in case you hadn't noticed yourself - I know you
>> like to get these things right.
> 
> Well truth be told, it doesn't bother me too much to not see attribution.
> Only in certain cases where the context is confusing.  And to be honest,
> with some of these threads even with attribution it's still confusing
> because there are so many levels.  It would be nice to have a reader
> which color coded replies.  Nonetheless, I do like to honor the requests
> of other people who do prefer to see attribution, and generally try to
> do so.  I have been having difficulty using the interface of the Kindle
> Fire HD.  It's good in most areas, but in some it seems odd.

The contexts are there to make it easier for people to see exactly what
you are replying to, with the attributions to tell who said what (as
well as for basic good manners).  Some people use a threaded newsreader
with a tree view of the threads - other people like to read them in
strict chronological order without a tree.  As one of the former users,
I find context quotations helpful but can cope without them if necessary
- but for people who sort chronologically, they are absolutely essential.

> 
> Also, another reason I didn't give attribution was because I wasn't
> generally replying to your reply point-by-point, but was making more of
> a general philosophy statement.

Fair point.

> 
> I still stand by the idea that optimization is important, but secondary,

I am a fan of Heathfield's Law:

"It is easier to make a readable program correct, than to make a correct
program readable. It is easier to make a correct program fast, than to
make a fast program correct."


But just as premature optimisation is bad, so is premature pessimisation
- efficiency must have its due weighting when designing data structures
and code.

> and that storage issues are in 2016 absolutely and completely trivial in
> all cases save those few niche cases where there is an issue of
> performance affecting real usability.

That is, as I said before, wrong - at least in the C world, where
storage issues and performance issues are often vital.  For some types
of programming, such as the targets for CAlive, you can always throw a
bigger disk or more cpu power at the problem.  But for embedded systems
- which are the main target of a great deal of C programming - saving a
few KB of space may mean buying a cheaper microcontroller and huge cost
savings.

>  How fast do most operations need
> to be?  I find very few things today that are actual issues of usable
> performance on my computer.  The only one I can think of off the top of
> my head is compilation time, but now that I'm designing and writing my
> compiler, I can see why it takes so long and I'm actually beginning to
> be amazed how fast it compiles.

In the PC world, there are many types of application where speed makes a
noticeable effect - but also many where everything is "fast enough"
already.  And the places where C is often used are at the lower levels
and the shared library code, where speed /is/ important.  After all, if
you don't need efficient code, why bother with C in the first place?
Use a higher level language that gives you a lot more functionality for
less development time - at the cost of run-time efficiency.

> 
> In those few cases where performance is affected notably, it might be
> worth taking the extra time to make the code a little more obscure to
> gain the performance benefits.  But in all other cases, the needs of
> ease of development and maintenance far and away exceed the need for
> optimization.
> 
> And, of course, all of the above must preclude sloppiness.  Things
> should still always be done in proper accord even if the CPU is so fast
> and power efficient that it wouldn't matter how inefficient the code is
> because it goes still so fast ... things still have a proper form they
> should exist in, and be pursued in those regards.
> 
> Best regards,
> Rick C. Hodgin
>

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Thread

Counted strings jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-03 23:58 +0100
  Re: Counted strings supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-03 15:40 -0800
  Counted stringsl Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2016-12-03 15:40 -0800
  Re: Counted strings BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-04 00:20 +0000
  Re: Counted strings Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2016-12-03 21:26 -0500
    Re: Counted strings jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-04 18:11 +0100
    Re: Counted strings Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-04 19:25 -0600
  Re: Counted strings Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-03 18:57 -0800
  Re: Counted strings David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-04 16:33 +0100
    Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-04 07:52 -0800
      Re: Counted strings David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-04 17:10 +0100
        Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-04 10:14 -0800
          Re: Counted strings David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-04 20:20 +0100
            Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-04 16:49 -0800
              Re: Counted strings David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-05 10:40 +0100
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 05:51 -0800
                Re: Counted strings David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-05 16:10 +0100
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 07:38 -0800
                Re: Counted strings Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-12-05 16:56 +0100
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 08:04 -0800
                Re: Counted strings Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-12-05 17:16 +0100
                Re: Counted strings Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-05 16:12 -0500
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 13:24 -0800
                Re: Counted strings David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-06 10:53 +0100
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 03:52 -0800
                Re: Counted strings David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-06 13:32 +0100
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 04:48 -0800
                Re: Counted strings Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-06 13:42 +0100
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 05:16 -0800
                Re: Counted strings Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-06 14:39 +0100
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 05:24 -0800
                Re: Counted strings fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 05:41 -0800
                Re: Counted strings fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 05:47 -0800
                Re: Counted strings Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-06 14:48 +0100
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 05:54 -0800
                Re: Counted strings fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 06:21 -0800
                Re: Counted strings fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 06:24 -0800
                Re: Counted strings Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-06 18:06 +0100
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 10:19 -0800
                Re: Counted strings Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-06 19:45 +0100
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 11:10 -0800
                Re: Counted strings fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 12:58 -0800
                Re: Counted strings fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 14:08 -0800
                Re: Counted strings Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-06 11:25 -0800
                Re: Counted strings fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 05:28 -0800
                Re: Counted strings David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-06 16:21 +0100
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 07:29 -0800
                Re: Counted strings fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 07:39 -0800
                Re: Counted strings fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 08:32 -0800
                Re: Counted strings fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 08:32 -0800
                Re: Counted strings BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-05 16:28 +0000
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 08:34 -0800
                Re: Counted strings BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-05 18:27 +0000
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 10:36 -0800
                Re: Counted strings Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-06 08:19 +1300
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 11:22 -0800
                Re: Counted strings Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-06 08:26 +1300
                Re: Counted strings BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-05 19:36 +0000
                Re: Counted strings Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-06 08:41 +1300
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 11:48 -0800
                Re: Counted strings Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 11:59 -0800
                Re: Counted strings jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-05 12:12 -0800
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 12:18 -0800
                Re: Counted strings jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-05 13:17 -0800
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 13:29 -0800
                Re: Counted strings jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-05 15:37 -0800
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 15:43 -0800
                Re: Counted strings David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-06 13:40 +0100
                Re: Counted strings "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-06 12:00 -0500
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 10:09 -0800
                Re: Counted strings Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-06 13:33 -0500
                Re: Counted strings David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-06 21:24 +0100
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 12:56 -0800
                Re: Counted strings Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-05 12:22 -0800
                Re: Counted strings supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-05 08:36 -0800
                Re: Counted strings BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-05 17:31 +0000
                Re: Counted strings David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-05 22:07 +0100
                Re: Counted strings Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-06 10:14 +1300
                Re: Counted strings Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-05 22:11 +0000
                Re: Counted strings BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-06 02:13 +0000
                Re: Counted strings David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-05 21:57 +0100
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 13:01 -0800
                Re: Counted strings BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-05 21:22 +0000
                Re: Counted strings Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-06 10:25 +1300
                Re: Counted strings BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-05 21:36 +0000
                Re: Counted strings jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-05 22:33 +0100
                Re: Counted strings "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 17:03 -0500
    Re: Counted strings supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-04 08:57 -0800
    Re: Counted strings Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-04 20:19 +0100
      Re: Counted strings David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-04 20:24 +0100
        Re: Counted strings Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-04 20:37 +0100
          Re: Counted strings David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-04 21:04 +0100
            Re: Counted strings Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-04 21:22 +0100
              Re: Counted strings BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-04 22:37 +0000
              Re: Counted strings David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2016-12-10 22:42 -0500
                Re: Counted strings Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-10 23:17 -0800
                Re: Counted strings Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-11 11:48 +0000
                Re: Counted strings Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-11 04:40 -0800
                Re: Counted strings Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-11 10:56 +0100
      Re: Counted strings Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-05 15:47 -0600
        Re: Counted strings Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 22:01 +0000
          Re: Counted strings Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-05 22:28 -0600
        Re: Counted strings "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-12-05 20:18 -0800
        Re: Counted strings Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-06 11:05 +0100
  Re: Counted strings luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-04 13:13 -0800
  Re: Counted strings Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-05 09:30 -0800
    Re: Counted strings Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-05 09:41 -0800
      Re: Counted strings Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-06 11:19 -0800
        Re: Counted strings Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-06 11:44 -0800
  Re: Counted strings Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-10 10:29 -0800
    Re: Counted strings supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-10 11:08 -0800

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