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Re: More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance

From amdx <nojunk@knology.net>
Newsgroups sci.electronics.design
Subject Re: More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance
Date 2016-09-29 10:59 -0500
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <nsjdon$ij$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <nsh2tn$8cq$1@dont-email.me> <3af0d58a-f078-4230-bc95-5e91025ca506@googlegroups.com>

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On 9/29/2016 8:55 AM, George Herold wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 2:42:14 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
>> A fine gentleman did an experiment building two inductors.
>> The coils were wound with 420/46 litz. Both inductors have 40 turns.
>> One inductor is close wound (215uh 7.7pf distributed capacitance).
>> The second has a 0.625/wire diameter space between wires, (187uh and 6.9
>> pf distributed capacitance).
>>    The inductor with spacing has a higher Q, except at the low end
>>
>> where the Q's are equal.
>>
>> The reason for spacing the wire is to reduce Proximity effect.
>>
>>
>> Here is the graph, each coil was tested twice (two lines each)
>>
>>
>>
>>> http://s395.photobucket.com/user/Qmavam/media/Close%20vs%20space%20wound._zpsctlfmjdi.png.html
>>
>>
>> What would be the reason that the Q does not start out higher,
>> but moves up with frequency?
>

>
> George H.
>>
>>
>>
>>                                       Mikek
>>
>> Re: the difference in inductance, both 40 turns.
>> The inductance,  215uh vs 187uh = 86.9%
>> The capacitance 7.7 vs 6.9 = 89.6%
>> The capacitance of 40 turns did go down 10.3% with spacing.
>> The inductance went down 13% with spacing.   FWIW

> > I always find some loss in the capacitor part of an LC.

> Lower frequency is bigger C, is the loss there?

  That's a good thought, I'm leaning against it though,
I suspect my fine gentleman measured his inductors with either a Boonton 
260A or an HP 4342A, both of these use very high Q* capacitors,
so even if the cap had more loss at low frequencies, I don't think it 
would make that much difference in the Q curve.

* ISTR reading the Boonton 260A tuning capacitor has a Q near 20,000.
I recently saw some silver air variable caps with a Q of 15,000.
Run of the mill air variables run from 1,000 on up.

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Thread

More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2016-09-28 13:42 -0500
  Re: More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance boB <boB@theresnoplacelikehome.com> - 2016-09-28 14:08 -0700
    Re: More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2016-09-28 17:06 -0500
      Re: More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2016-09-28 23:50 -0500
        Re: More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance boB <boB@theresnoplacelikehome.com> - 2016-09-28 22:27 -0700
      Re: More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2016-10-03 15:46 -0500
  Re: More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2016-09-28 15:38 -0700
    Re: More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2016-09-28 19:16 -0500
    Re: More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2016-09-28 22:06 -0500
      Re: More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2016-09-28 20:17 -0700
        Re: More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2016-09-29 06:13 -0500
          Re: More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2016-09-29 08:29 -0500
            Re: More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2016-09-29 06:54 -0700
              Re: More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance boB <boB@theresnoplacelikehome.com> - 2016-09-29 11:57 -0700
                Re: More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2016-09-29 12:29 -0700
  Re: More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2016-09-29 06:55 -0700
    Re: More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2016-09-29 10:59 -0500
      Re: More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance makolber@yahoo.com - 2016-09-29 09:15 -0700
        Re: More inductor talk, Proximity effect, self capacitance amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2016-09-29 13:16 -0500

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