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| From | Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: To include or not to include |
| Date | 2016-09-25 23:40 +0800 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <ns8r52$c3b$3@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (7 earlier) <87r388dzw9.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <ns8akc$o3j$1@dont-email.me> <ns8i3i$fks$1@dont-email.me> <ns8qcs$at2$1@dont-email.me> <ns8r1d$d7m$1@jstuckle.eternal-september.org> |
AT Sunday 25 September 2016 23:38, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 9/25/2016 11:27 AM, Reinhardt Behm wrote:
>> AT Sunday 25 September 2016 21:06, James Harris wrote:
>>
>>> On 25/09/2016 11:58, BartC wrote:
>>>> On 25/09/2016 11:42, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>>> If this is still about 'extern', then it would seem odd writing this
>>>>>> in A.h:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> extern int C_shared[];
>>>>>>
>>>>>> then a bit later in A.c and so within the same translation unit:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> int C_shared[] = {10,20,30};
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So declaring something as external, then defining the very same thing
>>>>>> as belonging to this module!
>>>>>
>>>>> What a joy for you. C has the power to amaze you with some new oddity
>>>>> every day.
>>>>
>>>> It's not just about me. It's illogical and confusing. If I write this
>>>> in Nasm:
>>>>
>>>> extern bart
>>>> bart:
>>>>
>>>> it says symbol 'bart' is redefined.
>>>>
>>>> I thought C was supposed to be higher level than such languages?
>>>
>>> Some of C's rules are for compatibility.
>>>
>>> Besides, are you interpreting the extern keyword incorrectly. It does
>>> not mean what it does in Nasm. IIRC it does not mean "external to this
>>> translation unit".
>>>
>>> Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that it means "external to a
>>> function"?
>>>
>>>
>>>> The C method does solve one problem (having a single form of
>>>> declaration that works in both exporting and importing modules, rather
>>>> than needing two), but it is not satisfactory.
>>>
>>> I think the issue is that extern declarations are often placed in header
>>> files. It is convenient for the same headers to be #included in the
>>> clients as well as the provider.
>>>
>>> For example, imagine you had a program fred.c with a fred.h header and
>>> fred.c had a global (i.e. exported) symbol mary. Then, fred.h would have
>>>
>>> extern int mary ....
>>>
>>> That header is also #included in fred.c so the compiler could see
>>>
>>> int mary ....
>>> extern int mary ....
>>>
>>> C allows them both to appear in the same TU. Perhaps at the file level
>>> extern could be seen as a sort of tentative declaration....?
>>
>> extern simply says that this variable is declared _somewhere_ and tells
>> the compiler what type it has. It can be in the same TU or in some other.
>> By including the "extern int mary" via a header file also into the TU
>> that declares mary and creates space for it, you make sure that at least
>> the types are correct.
>>
>
> One correction. extern simply says that this variable is *defined*
> _somewhere_. extern int mary would be a declaration.
>
> A declaration identifies a variable name and type. A definition
> reserves memory for it. A variable can be declared as many times as you
> want (as long as the declarations match). But it can only be defined
> once. Many compilers/linkers will barf if they see multiple definitions
> for a variable.
Yes, when writing this I was thinking if i got these two terms right or not.
--
Reinhardt
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To include or not to include James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 10:45 +0100
Re: To include or not to include David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-23 12:43 +0200
Re: To include or not to include BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-23 12:17 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-23 13:32 +0100
Re: To include or not to include David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-23 14:57 +0200
Re: To include or not to include BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-24 20:34 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-24 23:55 +0100
Re: To include or not to include BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-25 01:43 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-25 14:38 +1300
Re: To include or not to include Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-25 11:42 +0100
Re: To include or not to include BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-25 11:58 +0100
Re: To include or not to include James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 14:06 +0100
Re: To include or not to include BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-25 15:15 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2016-09-25 23:33 +0800
Re: To include or not to include Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2016-09-25 10:04 -0600
Re: To include or not to include Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2016-09-26 00:21 +0800
Re: To include or not to include "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-09-25 13:17 -0400
Re: To include or not to include James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 00:18 +0100
Re: To include or not to include BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-26 17:55 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-26 20:07 +0100
Re: To include or not to include supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-26 12:13 -0700
Re: To include or not to include James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-09-27 01:25 +0100
Re: To include or not to include supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-26 18:05 -0700
Re: To include or not to include Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-27 14:27 +0100
Re: To include or not to include BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-27 14:49 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-27 15:15 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-27 07:42 -0700
Re: To include or not to include Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-27 09:30 -0700
Re: To include or not to include Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-27 10:06 -0700
Re: To include or not to include supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-27 08:12 -0700
Re: To include or not to include Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-28 10:46 -0700
Re: To include or not to include BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-27 17:55 +0100
Re: To include or not to include supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-27 10:19 -0700
Re: To include or not to include Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-27 11:42 -0700
Re: To include or not to include BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-27 19:57 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-27 12:38 -0700
Re: To include or not to include BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-27 21:00 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-28 01:50 +0100
Re: To include or not to include BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-28 10:55 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-27 13:33 -0700
Re: To include or not to include Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2016-09-28 19:13 +0000
Re: To include or not to include supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-27 12:38 -0700
Re: To include or not to include James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-09-27 20:57 +0100
Re: To include or not to include supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-27 07:25 -0700
Re: To include or not to include Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-28 00:28 +0100
Re: To include or not to include supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-30 07:53 -0700
Re: To include or not to include Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-30 16:06 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-27 13:53 +0100
Re: To include or not to include James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 19:46 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-30 20:27 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2016-09-25 23:27 +0800
Re: To include or not to include Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-09-25 11:38 -0400
Re: To include or not to include Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2016-09-25 23:40 +0800
Re: To include or not to include BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-25 15:06 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-09-25 11:49 -0400
Re: To include or not to include BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-25 18:05 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-09-25 16:42 -0400
Re: To include or not to include BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-25 21:53 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-09-25 17:57 -0400
Re: To include or not to include Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-25 21:20 +0100
Re: To include or not to include BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-25 21:49 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-26 00:40 +0100
Re: To include or not to include David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-23 14:56 +0200
Re: To include or not to include Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-09-23 13:31 +0100
Re: To include or not to include James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 13:52 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-09-23 14:35 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-23 18:55 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-09-23 20:33 +0100
Re: To include or not to include Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2016-09-23 08:22 -0600
Re: To include or not to include Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2016-09-23 11:37 -0400
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