Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip

From	David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups	comp.arch.embedded, sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip
Date	2016-07-28 12:29 +0200
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<nncmqi$p8a$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <2f6hpbpm1s02t4a9l4polr45otiui9fthi@4ax.com> <v3iipbpjh9jqnd2sf62idoe0od7m8liite@4ax.com> <87wpk68nu4.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com> <nnc9n8$hoj$1@dont-email.me> <87shuu8csf.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 28/07/16 09:03, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> writes:
>> There are a lot of choices. ARM Mx, PICxx. PICxx has many of the same
>> single-source problems as AVR, but I've never caught them in the same
>> "new revs are different" trap as with AVR.
> 
> The smaller PICs seem horrible to program.  AVR and ARM at least have
> decent gcc-based tool chains.  

This is key, as far as I am concerned.  When choosing a microcontroller
for a job, having a good gcc port which is supported by the manufacturer
is high up on my list of deciding factors.

PICs have good peripherals and are very robust microcontrollers - but
you have to use painful development tools and think in PIC-style C
rather than writing normal C code.  (The same applies to 8051, and other
such C-unfriendly cores.)

The AVR has a few quirks regarding C compatibility and programming
(separate address spaces for flash, and poor pointer support) - it is a
sort of middle-ground between unpleasant processors and nice ones.  It
is a nice cpu for assembly programming, though it's a long time since I
have done much of that.

The ARM is great for programming.  It is a nice, clean 32-bit C friendly
architecture.  It is hard to see what could be better in this regard.
(There are plenty of other equally good ISA's, such as PPC, 68K, MIPS, etc.)

> As mentioned, I don't know of ARM parts
> directly comparable to the more popular AVR's (PDIP packages for
> breadboard prototyping, 5-volt tolerant i/o, etc).  

PDIP packages are hardly the popular ones.  For prototyping with AVRs, I
expect most people use ready-made boards so that the packaging doesn't
matter.  It must be well over a decade since I have seen any use of
breadboards for prototyping or development.

There are few microcontrollers of any sort these days that will drive 5V
signals, but certainly the Freescale/NXP Kinetis (Cortex M0+/M4) series
are mostly 5V tolerant and some drive 5V outputs.

> ARMs also seem more
> complex to program than AVR (e.g. in terms of the stuff required on
> startup) but maybe that's my imagination.

It is a bit of a generalisation, but it is roughly correct.  It is an
inevitable consequence of greater flexibility of peripherals and core
modules.  An AVR runs at a given clock speed - determined by an external
crystal or internal oscillator and a few "fuse bits".  An ARM
microcontroller might have a couple of internal oscillators, a low-power
32 kHz crystal, and a high speed crystal.  Internally, it will perhaps
start in one mode but software will switch it to another, maybe even
with dynamic changes while running.  Different parts of it will run at
different speeds.  There is simply more to configure - and that's just
for the clocks.

> 
> I was a fan of the TI MSP430 line for a while, since it has a nicer cpu
> architecture and some unique features, but again the available parts
> don't have the configuration and packaging options that the AVRs do.

The msp430 cpu is very nice - it's the cleanest 16-bit C device I have
used.  (The 20-bit extensions are horrible, however.)

> Plus, I think recent ARMs have surpassed the 430's in power efficiency
> despite being 32 bits wide instead of 16.  TI itself seems to be moving
> away from the 430 line towards the Cortex M4.
> 

It's always a challenge to define power efficiency - it can mean so many
things.  One device might have lower leakage power in standby mode,
another might have lower energy required for a given calculation.  In
general, simpler devices like the msp430 or AVR are likely to have lower
static power, but a Cortex M0+ will take much less power for processing
tasks.

Thread

Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-28 18:55 -0400
  Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2016-06-29 11:24 -0500
    Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-06-29 16:31 +0000
      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2016-06-29 11:45 -0500
    Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2016-06-29 12:46 -0400
      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2016-06-29 12:59 -0400
        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-06-29 17:13 +0000
        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2016-06-29 10:32 -0700
          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2016-06-29 16:14 -0400
      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2016-06-29 12:59 -0500
        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 14:06 -0400
          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2016-06-29 13:28 -0500
          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2016-07-01 20:03 +0000
            Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-01 16:11 -0400
              Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2016-07-01 23:44 +0000
              Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-01 20:17 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-02 22:42 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-03 00:46 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-03 03:08 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-03 08:46 -0400
            Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-01 13:33 -0700
              Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-01 17:32 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-01 14:49 -0700
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-01 17:52 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-01 17:54 -0400
              Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2016-07-01 22:14 +0000
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-01 18:18 -0400
              Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2016-07-01 18:48 -0400
    Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 13:04 -0400
      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2016-06-29 13:07 -0500
        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 14:17 -0400
          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2016-06-29 13:34 -0500
          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2016-06-29 14:45 -0400
    Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2016-06-29 12:24 -0500
      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2016-06-29 13:09 -0500
  Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2016-06-29 12:19 -0700
    Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 19:48 -0400
      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-29 16:49 -0700
    Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) - 2016-07-18 17:02 -0400
      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-18 20:29 -0400
      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2016-07-19 10:48 +0000
        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-19 20:23 -0400
      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-07-19 14:27 +0000
  Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 17:46 +0200
    Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 12:14 -0400
      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 09:10 +0200
        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-25 20:11 -0400
    Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-22 23:01 -0400
      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 09:15 +0200
        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-07-25 14:06 +0000
          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2016-07-25 23:54 +0100
            Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-07-25 23:18 +0000
              Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 19:44 -0400
            Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-12-16 17:58 +0100
              Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2016-12-16 17:28 -0500
        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-25 20:22 -0400
          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 22:43 -0400
            Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-26 20:12 -0400
              Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-26 21:30 -0700
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-27 19:46 -0400
              Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2016-07-27 07:25 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-27 19:53 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-27 20:04 -0700
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2016-07-28 01:51 -0500
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 02:50 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip raimond.dragomir@gmail.com - 2016-07-28 03:27 -0700
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 12:58 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-28 00:03 -0700
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Uwe Bonnes <bon@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> - 2016-07-28 10:19 +0000
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-29 14:52 -0700
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 02:19 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-30 20:03 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-30 17:11 -0700
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-30 20:54 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-01 09:45 +0200
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-01 11:52 -0700
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip raimond.dragomir@gmail.com - 2016-08-01 22:17 -0700
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-01 22:28 -0700
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip raimond.dragomir@gmail.com - 2016-08-02 23:14 -0700
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-30 18:05 -0700
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip kristoff <kristoff@skypro.be> - 2016-07-30 18:15 +0200
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-30 19:19 -0700
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-28 12:29 +0200
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 15:04 +0200
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Mel Wilson <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2016-07-28 14:07 +0000
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-28 20:10 -0400
              Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-27 10:08 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-27 19:49 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 00:30 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-28 20:13 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 02:23 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-30 20:06 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2016-07-31 13:55 +0300
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-31 09:12 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2016-07-31 17:22 +0300
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-31 10:26 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2016-07-31 17:38 +0300
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-31 10:49 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2016-07-31 17:56 +0300
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-31 19:21 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2016-08-01 02:47 +0300
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-31 17:11 -0700
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2016-07-31 18:54 -0700
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-31 20:14 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2016-08-01 03:42 +0300
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-31 21:05 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2016-08-01 04:38 +0300
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw <krw@nowhere.com> - 2016-07-31 22:39 -0400

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