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Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style

From Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style
Date 2016-07-11 13:32 -0500
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <nm0onc$saq$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (4 earlier) <gaydnaCaveOqOR7KnZ2dnUU7-amdnZ2d@supernews.com> <801766f5-2bdc-478c-ae9c-7b25d208c85c@googlegroups.com> <YL-dna0VsKtXUB7KnZ2dnUU7-QHNnZ2d@supernews.com> <nm0k90$ak1$1@dont-email.me> <b8fbea90-24bf-4d1d-bc9c-3428c71e0402@googlegroups.com>

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On 7/11/2016 12:38 PM, Mark Wills wrote:
> On Monday, 11 July 2016 18:16:17 UTC+1, Cecil - k5nwa  wrote:
>> On 7/11/2016 11:48 AM, Andrew Haley wrote:
>>> Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I bought a book about 35 years ago that sampled several different 16-bit
>>>> microprocessors, giving a large chapter to each one and providing
>>>> architecture info and assembly code examples.  I think that it covered
>>>> the 8086, 68000, 16000 (later renamed to 32000), 9900, and pdp-11.
>>>
>>> Interesting.  I was thinking it must have been the Osborne 16-bit
>>> book, but that didn't cover the PDP-11.
>>>
>>>> I was reading the chapter on the pdp-11, and had reached the detailed
>>>> description of the addressing modes.  My friend was sitting nearby, and
>>>> suddenly asked if I was crying.  I actually was, a little bit, proving
>>>> beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was a true nerd.
>>>
>>> Yep.  :-)
>>>
>>> Andrew.
>>>
>> I been playing with FPGAs to create, Forth processors, on my list of
>> items to create once I am more familiar with the VHDL software is to
>> create a PDP11 from scratch, the reason it's beautiful instruction set.
>> Funny thing is that with the FPGA one can create a PDP11 that is way
>> faster than the original models.
>>
>> The TI 99XX family, and Nova mini will follow shortly after the PDP11 is
>> working. These processors have a very nice architecture, but I would
>> build the TI99xx without some of the silly limitations put on it with
>> the TI 9900 personal computers such as having 8 bit limited memory, and
>> of course a much faster CPU clock.
>>
>> --
>> Cecil - k5nwa
>
> Don't look at the TI-99/4A - it has an awful architecture! The 9900 was put
> in the 4A at the last minute. It should never have been in there. The mother
> board is made for a processor with an 8 bit data bus, so data has to be pre-
> assembled from two seperate 8 bit reads/writes and presented to the 9900 as
> a complete 16-bit word. It's just awful!
>
> The 9900 processor itself is fine, though it needs a 4 phase clock. Later
> versions (9995) just had a single phase clock. The 9995 has an 8 bit databus
> but is still more than twice as fast as a 9900 (and you can over clock them,
> too - I've had them up past 12 megahertz). It has some extra instructions,
> (signed divide and multiply) 256 bytes of internal ram, internal timers, and
> instruction pre-fetch. If you're going to re-create any of them in VHDL, then
> the 9995 is the one to go for, as it only needs 40 pins.
>
> Actually, I have a VHDL implementation of it somewhere.
>
I call those features silly, so I would not proceed to add them in. They 
crippled the performance of the machine, eventually I created my own 
board with 16 bit fast RAM, I liked that CPU. Like many things in 
electronics, performance and easy of use are only one small part of the 
equation, unfortunately marketing has a much bigger impact on which CPUs 
make it or not.

Back in the early 70s I designed my own CPU and built it, and one of the 
unusual feature of it was a register bank, dedicated high speed RAM that 
would be your register bank, you could switch the entire set for another 
in one instruction, fast for answering interrupts. One day I would like 
to go back to it and replicate it in an FPGA, it would be much faster, 
and a heck of a lot easier to make changes.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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Thread

Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-07-08 17:44 -0700
  Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-09 04:27 +0000
  Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-07-09 10:30 -0700
    Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-07-09 21:56 -0700
      Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style mhx@iae.nl - 2016-07-10 00:30 -0700
        Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style mhx@iae.nl - 2016-07-10 00:34 -0700
          Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-07-10 09:10 -0700
      Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style endlessboomcapitalism@gmail.com - 2016-07-12 18:55 -0700
  Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-07-10 01:39 -0700
    Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-07-10 08:50 -0700
      Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-07-10 15:00 -0700
        Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-10 22:53 -0400
          Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 01:59 -0700
            Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 09:44 -0400
              Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 10:51 -0700
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 15:26 -0400
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-07-12 15:18 -0700
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-07-25 19:56 -0700
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 23:13 -0400
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style jim.brakefield@ieee.org - 2016-07-26 07:34 -0700
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-26 11:23 -0400
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style jim.brakefield@ieee.org - 2016-07-26 13:18 -0700
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-26 18:14 -0400
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-07-27 02:43 -0700
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-27 10:24 -0400
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-07-27 02:46 -0700
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-27 10:26 -0400
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-07-27 02:53 -0700
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-07-27 08:32 -0700
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-07-27 09:04 -0700
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 02:05 -0700
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-07-28 06:27 -0700
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-07-29 03:01 -0700
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 02:28 -0400
            Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 13:05 -0400
              Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 10:47 -0700
        Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-07-11 08:50 -0500
          Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-11 08:23 -0700
            Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-07-11 11:48 -0500
              Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-07-11 12:16 -0500
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 10:38 -0700
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-07-11 13:32 -0500
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-07-11 12:45 -0500
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 11:49 -0700
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-07-12 05:02 -0500
              Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-11 14:22 -0700
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-07-11 16:31 -0500
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-12 15:31 -0400
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-12 15:55 -0700
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 22:48 -0400
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-10 01:54 -0700
            Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-07-11 11:58 -0700
          Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-12 15:59 -0700
            Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-07-26 00:40 +0000
              Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-07-25 21:16 -1000
              Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-07-26 03:34 -0500
              Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-07-26 16:51 +0000
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-26 13:51 -0400
            Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 22:50 -0400
            Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2016-07-26 16:32 -0700
              Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-27 10:19 -0400
                Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-07-27 09:05 -1000
        Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-12 15:51 -0700
          Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-07-14 03:34 -0700
            Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 22:51 -0400
      Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 01:56 -0700
        Re: Forth coding style vs "Algol et al" coding style foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-07-11 08:03 -0700

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