Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation

From	Sergio <invalid@invalid.com>
Newsgroups	sci.physics
Subject	Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation
Date	2016-06-08 14:18 -0500
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<nj9r2j$3n0$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(8 earlier) <843k2d-vb6.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <nj82tq$1287$1@gioia.aioe.org> <kuok2d-ng8.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <nj9aik$10o0$1@gioia.aioe.org> <fa5m2d-55d.ln1@mail.specsol.com>

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On 6/8/2016 1:38 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
>> On 6/8/2016 1:01 AM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>> Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>> On 6/7/2016 6:48 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>> Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> a way to bound it is take 100,000 people over their lifetime of 80 years.
>>>>>> how many get cancer ? about 450 (gov statistic)
>>>>>> assume 100% is caused by radiation dammaged cells
>>>>>
>>>>> A very silly assumption.
>>>>>
>>>>> Worldwide approximately 18% of cancer deaths are related to infectious
>>>>> diseases.
>>>>>
>>>>> Diet, physical inactivity and obesity are related to up to 30-35% of
>>>>> cancer deaths.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ionizing radiation is not a particularly strong mutagen.
>>>>>
>>>>> Little JB (2000). "Chapter 14: Ionizing Radiation". In Kufe DW, Pollock RE,
>>>>> Weichselbaum RR, Bast RC, Gansler TS, Holland JF, Frei E.  Cancer
>>>>> medicine (6th ed.). Hamilton, Ont: B.C. Decker.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> that assumption was just a quick way to jump over a complexity, to see
>>>> what ballpark you are in, then go back and fix the assumption to a more
>>>> real or bounded value.
>>>
>>> Your assumption wasn't even in the same city as the ballpark, much less
>>> in the ballpark.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I disagree, the stats you quoted are muddied, and it seems you missed
>> the point anyway, which was showing background ionizing radiation is not
>> a strong mutagen.
>>
>> But it is still a mutagen, and what % chance do you have of getting
>> cancer caused by background radiation ?
>>
>> Can you do a ballpark? Give it a shot.  The upper limit is less than
>> 0.45% via the Gov stat of 450/100,000 get cancer in their lifetime.
>>
>> [there are two other ways to ballpark it too.]
>
> You are arm waving.
>
> I gave just two known causes of cancer which account for roughly 50%
> of cancer cases.
>
> Radiation exposure accounts for about 10% of cases, mostly skin cancers
> from ultraviolet radiation, with most of what's left from residential
> radon accumulation and radiation treatment for one form of cancer
> inducing a second form of cancer.

which the latter ones are ionizing radiation, and UV is just bad

>
> As cancer is well reported and studied and no one cnciders background
> radiation as a cause, I would think it is safe to say that cause is
> either zero or so small to be well down into the noise level.
>
>
>

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/radiationexposureandcancer/index

this subject area is too expansive, that is why I skipped over it with 
an assumption to demonstrate low prob of background ionizing radiation 
causing cancer, but it is there,  24/7

also it takes a long time for a bad replicating cell to build up into a 
detectable mass, 1 to 2 years breast cancer, and 20 or 40 years for 
others.  So many people die of old age can have undetectable cancers, 
like prostrate cancer

Thread

Reminder: Ionizing radiation Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-06-06 13:57 -0500
  Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-06-06 18:38 -0400
  Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-06-06 18:04 -0500
    Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-06 22:42 -0400
  Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-06 22:14 -0400
    Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-07 04:20 +0000
      Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 10:02 +0200
        Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-06-07 07:58 -0500
          Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 15:25 +0200
      Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-06-07 07:57 -0500
      Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 17:00 -0700
    Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 06:56 -0500
      Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-06-07 08:16 -0500
        Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-06-07 14:24 -0500
          Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-06-07 14:42 -0500
      Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-07 15:10 +0000
        Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-07 13:45 -0400
          Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-07 18:05 +0000
            Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-06-07 14:39 -0400
              Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-06-07 13:59 -0500
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-06-07 16:00 -0400
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-06-07 16:48 -0400
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-06-07 18:10 -0500
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-06-07 19:24 -0400
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-07 23:48 +0000
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-06-07 20:08 -0400
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-08 00:21 +0000
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-06-07 20:41 -0400
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-08 00:58 +0000
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-06-07 21:13 -0400
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-08 01:27 +0000
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-06-07 22:20 -0500
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-08 01:10 -0400
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-08 06:01 +0000
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-06-08 09:36 -0500
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-08 18:38 +0000
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-06-08 14:18 -0500
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-08 19:44 +0000
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-08 16:59 -0400
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-08 16:10 -0500
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-08 17:35 -0400
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-08 22:55 +0000
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-08 20:37 -0400
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-06-08 19:23 -0700
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-09 02:49 +0000
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-09 02:52 -0400
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-09 16:25 +0000
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-08 21:38 +0000
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-08 21:17 +0000
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-06-08 16:45 -0500
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-08 23:05 +0000
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-06-07 20:00 -0500
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-06-07 21:22 -0400
              Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-07 23:04 +0000
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-06-07 19:51 -0400
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-08 00:29 +0000
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-06-07 20:53 -0400
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-08 01:45 +0000
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-06-07 22:10 -0400
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-08 06:12 +0000
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-06-08 11:35 -0500
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-08 18:45 +0000
            Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-07 14:48 -0400
              Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-07 23:10 +0000
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-07 21:39 -0400
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-08 06:14 +0000
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-06-08 10:21 -0700
                Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-08 19:07 +0000
        Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-06-07 14:31 -0500
          Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-06-07 14:43 -0500
            Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-06-07 16:19 -0500
        Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-06-07 15:21 -0700
          Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-07 23:13 +0000
            Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-06-08 05:58 -0700
              Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-08 19:14 +0000
            Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-06-08 09:22 -0500
              Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-08 19:15 +0000
  Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation eaglesondouglas@gmail.com - 2016-06-08 04:40 -0700
    Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-06-08 09:27 -0500
      Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation eaglesondouglas@gmail.com - 2016-06-09 05:54 -0700
        Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation eaglesondouglas@gmail.com - 2016-06-09 06:03 -0700
          Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-06-09 09:51 -0500
        Re: Reminder: Ionizing radiation Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-06-09 09:50 -0500

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