Re: Creative Political Systems in SF

From	Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net>
Newsgroups	rec.arts.sf.written
Subject	Re: Creative Political Systems in SF
Date	2016-05-04 12:17 -0700
Organization	Chaotic Creations Unlimited
Message-ID	<ngdhlg$491$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <20160501a@crcomp.net> <3aa009ca-1802-497d-af41-7a56285d31eb@googlegroups.com> <a17fee1e-a856-411a-af49-b18347d698e0@googlegroups.com> <MPG.31907011a25a64cd98a151@news.eternal-september.org> <MPG.31945a77b94304c2989943@news.kolumbus.fi>

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In article <MPG.31945a77b94304c2989943@news.kolumbus.fi>,
 Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> wrote:

> In article <MPG.31907011a25a64cd98a151@news.eternal-september.org>, 
> j.clarke.873638@gmail.com says...
> > 
> > In article <a17fee1e-a856-411a-af49-b18347d698e0@googlegroups.com>, 
> > patmpowers@gmail.com says...
> > > 
> > > On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 5:55:57 PM UTC-4, Kevrob wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 5:32:53 PM UTC-4, Don Kuenz wrote:
> > > > > Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > On Sun, 01 May 2016 00:26:05 -0500, michael <me@here.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>I've spent a few hours this evening catching up on what's been
> > > > > >>happening in a few online forums that I frequent, including usenet,
> > > > > >>facebook, and a couple of interest-specific websites.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Much to my dismay, just about every one of the places I've looked
> > > > > >>at this evening has been all but overrun with political bullshit.
> > > > > >>Facebook in particular is completely choked with it.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Being clubbed in the face with everyone's political opinions made
> > > > > >>me nostalgic for one of my favorite bits of vintage SF - Lone Star
> > > > > >>Planet by H. Beam Piper.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>The story is set on the planet of New Texas, where any practicing
> > > > > >>politician can be assassinated at will, and the killer can get off
> > > > > >>scott free.   All he has to do is prove that the politician "had it
> > > > > >>coming."   This led me to an hour or so of wistful musing as to
> > > > > >>how our society would be different if this was implemented here.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Does anyone else have a similar example of a political system from 
> > > > > >>SF
> > > > > >>that  might prove entertaining while we endure the rest of this
> > > > > >>election cycle?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sheckley: Ticket to Tranai
> > > > > 
> > > > > _Ticket_ offers a practical solution to vexing politicians - off with
> > > > > their heads. Decapitation by majority vote perhaps offers a more just
> > > > > solution.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Decapitation by majority keeps a running total of votes to 
> > > > > decapitate.
> > > > > Just as soon as the votes reach a majority !!BOOM!! off with the 
> > > > > head.
> > > > > Citizens can rescind their vote at any time prior to decapitation 
> > > > > when
> > > > > a citizen has a change of heart. Rescinded votes can later be recast 
> > > > > and
> > > > > so on.
> > > > > 
> > > > > How to improve the flip side of the coin, whereby the Supreme 
> > > > > President
> > > > > kills with impunity, takes more thought. A kill limit might make 
> > > > > things
> > > > > more fair. With a kill limit the President can only kill one person 
> > > > > per
> > > > > hour or something.
> > > > > 
> > > > > --
> > > > > Don Kuenz KB7RPU
> > > > 
> > > > Many wouldn't want to live in L Neil Smith's North American 
> > > > Confederacy fron "The Probability Broach" and its sequels.
> > > > The representation system in the Continental Congress is
> > > > interesting, though.  Delegates vote on measures, then the 
> > > > votes are weighted depending on how many proxies have 
> > > > been electronically assigned to each delegate by the citizens.
> > > > 
> > > > Given the advances in internet tech since the novel was
> > > > published, 38 years ago, we might be able to replicate
> > > > a system to do this now.  Making it secure would probably
> > > > be the toughest problem.
> > > > 
> > > > Kevin R
> > > 
> > > That seems like quite a reasonable idea.  The geographic representation 
> > > system is inferior, obsolete, and inevitably produces pork.  Even dove 
> > > Sanders got military pork for Vermont.  He had to.  It's his job.  Why 
> > > shouldn't I give my vote to whomever in Congress best represents me? 
> > > 
> > > Making it as secure as the current system would be easy. It really might 
> > > work.
> > 
> > A problem with any system needs to deal with is the urban vs rural 
> > issue--laws that make perfect sense for somebody living in a slum in New 
> > York may make no sense at all for a farmer in Iowa and vice versa.  
> > However the slum dwellers, collectively, are a much larger voting block 
> > even though they make a far less significant contribution to the 
> > survival of society.
> 
> And yet the farmers in Iowa receive over a billion dollars a year in 
> subsidies, largely on city dwellers' coin.

Turn off the farm subsidies in Iowa (or wherever else they're currently 
going) and watch one of two things happen: A) Food prices in the cities 
whining about the subsidies will go into orbit. B) Massive numbers of 
dead bodies will clog the streets of those cities as people starve to 
death. Or both. (Mostly likely both)

-- 
Brought to you by the letter Q and the number .357
Security provided by Horace S. & Dan W.

Thread

Creative Political Systems in SF michael <me@here.com> - 2016-05-01 00:26 -0500
  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> - 2016-05-01 08:01 +0100
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-05-01 21:29 +0000
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-01 14:55 -0700
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 15:20 -0700
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-01 20:57 -0400
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-01 19:11 -0700
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 19:47 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-01 21:06 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-03 08:32 +0800
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 06:33 -0400
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-04 20:02 +0300
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 20:48 -0700
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 06:51 -0400
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-03 08:35 +0800
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-04 20:14 +0300
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-05-04 12:17 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 12:30 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-04 20:03 +0000
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-04 13:57 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-05 10:24 +0800
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 22:38 -0400
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-05 06:03 +0300
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 07:08 -0400
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-05 15:14 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 15:54 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-07 17:03 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 20:27 -0400
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-06 10:16 +0800
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 15:15 -0700
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-05-01 23:52 -0400
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 21:10 -0700
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "cycjec"<cycjec@freeshell.INVALID> - 2016-05-04 13:32 +0000
  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-01 07:41 -0500
  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-05-01 10:24 -0700
  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 11:23 -0700
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-05-01 11:56 -0700
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-01 16:57 -0400
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 15:12 -0700
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-05-02 07:32 -0400
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-04 19:59 +0300
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-07 17:00 -0700
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-05-10 14:23 +0000
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 15:05 -0700
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-01 18:30 -0500
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF michael <me@here.com> - 2016-05-03 19:32 -0500
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-04 19:56 +0300
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-07 13:50 -0400
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 09:17 +0200
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-09 14:15 -0500
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-09 22:56 +0300
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-09 15:02 -0500
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-05-09 13:57 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-05-09 21:00 +0000
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-05-09 18:09 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-09 18:52 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-09 19:35 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-11 21:29 -0400
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-05-10 09:37 -0400
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-10 12:06 -0500
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-09 16:06 -0500
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-09 19:11 -0500
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-05-10 09:36 -0400
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-10 12:04 -0500
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-05-10 13:11 -0400
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-05-09 21:45 -0600
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-05-09 21:39 -0600
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-09 15:26 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-09 18:14 -0500
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2016-05-01 13:56 -0600
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-01 13:07 -0700
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 15:10 -0700
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2016-05-01 17:00 -0600
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 16:11 -0700
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2016-05-01 18:12 -0600
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 19:26 -0700
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-02 08:56 +0800
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 19:40 -0700
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-01 18:21 -0500
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2016-05-01 22:57 -0300
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-05-01 21:33 -0700
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-01 22:33 -0700
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 06:54 -0400
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-05-06 17:18 +0000
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-06 17:58 +0000
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 11:14 -0700
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 11:27 -0700
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-05-07 10:05 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2016-05-07 17:29 +0000
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 17:04 -0700
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kay Shapero <kay@invalid.net> - 2016-05-06 23:04 -0700
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 04:53 -0400
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kay Shapero <kay@invalid.net> - 2016-05-07 20:55 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 00:07 -0400
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-05-09 10:11 -0400
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-05-09 10:08 -0400
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-05-07 14:25 -0600
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-08 04:52 -0500
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 15:37 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-05-09 02:20 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 17:44 -0700
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 11:06 -0700
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2016-05-06 22:08 +0000
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2016-05-07 00:19 -0300
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2016-05-07 00:21 -0300
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-07 07:22 -0700
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-05-07 08:37 -0700
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-05-07 14:29 -0600
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-09 16:34 +0000
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-10 08:52 +0800
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-09 18:48 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-05-09 20:31 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-11 08:33 +0800
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-05-11 05:42 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-12 08:29 +0800
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-05-12 02:51 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Stephen Allcroft <stephenallcroft@lycos.co.uk> - 2016-05-12 07:59 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-12 15:17 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-05-13 00:35 -0700
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-05-11 18:31 +0000
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-06 16:30 -0700
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-05-07 00:09 -0400
              Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2016-05-07 11:48 +0000
                Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-07 07:28 -0700
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-07 09:43 +0800
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-05-02 03:55 -0700
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-07 16:56 -0700
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-07 19:30 -0700
  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-02 08:47 +0800
  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-05-02 11:23 -0700
  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2016-05-02 15:18 -0600
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-05-03 02:11 -0700
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> - 2016-05-03 21:35 +0100
  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Butch Malahide <fred.galvin@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 17:44 -0700
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-05-03 03:57 +0000
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-05-03 04:10 +0000
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-05-06 22:48 +0000
  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 11:52 -0700
  Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-04 17:12 -0500
    Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-04 17:51 -0500
      Re: Creative Political Systems in SF hamish.laws@gmail.com - 2016-05-04 16:56 -0700
        Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 16:45 -0700
          Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-07 07:09 -0700
            Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-07 14:40 -0700

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