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Re: Point particle

From Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Re: Point particle
Date 2016-04-25 16:02 -0500
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <nfm0k7$1vvd$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References <pLSdnZYk1M6064bKnZ2dnUU7-U-dnZ2d@giganews.com> <deb118d8-9abf-415a-abf0-ea93efa35f9d@googlegroups.com> <c7b05405-5e15-4d1f-aad6-430630aec281@googlegroups.com> <e8c76c62-4882-4e29-a02c-f3574710d00a@googlegroups.com> <4c73a72d-38d1-42f5-93af-11b63b6dcc00@googlegroups.com>

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On 4/25/2016 3:10 PM, nuny@bid.nes wrote:
> There is no "inevitable logic" there. What you left out of "modeling" is the "idealization" part.
> Galileo idealized for instance homogeneity and perfect rigidity of his materials, no air resistance,
> the constancy of the gravitational field of Earth at different altitudes, the same kind of universal
> time that Newton assumed, and more.
>
>    All of those idealizations are false. That they didn't show up in the kinds of experiments he could
> do is irrelevant.
>
>    The problem arises when people extend those falsehoods beyond the ranges of size, speed, and time
> Galileo could access.
>
>    That's why we have relativity deniers, Flat Earthers, and people who insist that "fundamental
> particles" have zero volume and no components.
>
>    Forgetting that idealizations*are*  idealizations is stoopid.

With all respect, I strongly disagree with your statement that 
"idealizations are false". What counts is whether the ways that a 
particular physical system deviates from the idealization MATTER in the 
form of measurements being taken. For example, any projectile launched 
on the surface of the earth is going to exhibit the Coriolis effect, but 
for playing billiards, it just isn't going to matter in the measurements 
involved and so can be ignored.

The relevance of this has to do with how science validates any 
scientific idea -- that is, comparison with experiment. That is, the 
ONLY way we can tell whether some idea is right or wrong is by comparing 
to measurements, and so the sensitivity of the measurement to factors 
beyond the idealization is key in the outcome of that comparison between 
model and measurement. If the idealization agrees with experiment, to 
within the precision of the measurement, then the idealization is 
considered VALID, not false.

If we declared all such idealizations "false", then you would consider 
also the laws of conservation of momentum and energy and charge to be 
"false", which I'm pretty sure scientists don't do.


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Point particle Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 08:18 -0500
  Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 06:33 -0700
    Re: Point particle Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 07:51 -0700
      Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 08:00 -0700
        Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-23 12:59 -0400
    Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-23 12:57 -0400
      Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 10:47 -0700
        Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-23 23:27 -0400
  Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 06:41 -0700
  Re: Point particle Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-04-23 14:19 -0700
  Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 14:48 -0700
    Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 05:18 -0700
      Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 05:27 -0700
        Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 05:32 -0700
          Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 08:05 -0500
            Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 06:17 -0700
              Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 06:39 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 07:16 -0700
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 07:57 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 08:32 -0700
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 08:51 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-25 13:29 -0400
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 14:23 -0500
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 00:32 -0700
              Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 14:23 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 12:32 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 12:40 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 15:12 -0500
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 14:59 -0500
                Re: Point particle moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-25 20:24 +0000
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 13:44 -0700
            Re: Point particle jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-04-25 10:38 -0700
              Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 11:00 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-25 21:34 -0400
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 18:51 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-25 22:36 -0400
              Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 07:41 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 07:33 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 10:06 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 08:19 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 10:39 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 10:26 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 14:09 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 12:15 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 14:20 -0500
                Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 15:03 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 17:21 -0500
                Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 15:26 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 19:47 -0500
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-26 21:29 -0400
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 07:35 -0500
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 01:35 -0700
                Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 15:08 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 19:32 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 01:03 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 02:04 -0700
                Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 16:10 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 00:16 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 08:39 -0500
                Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 19:37 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-30 00:38 -0400
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 04:56 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-30 12:23 -0400
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 09:35 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 12:41 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 10:47 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 13:37 -0500
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 02:38 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Buck Futter" <invalide@example.com> - 2016-05-03 11:49 -0700
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 11:00 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-02 15:03 -0400
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 13:15 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 14:35 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-02 21:22 -0400
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 09:41 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 10:22 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-30 13:36 -0400
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 10:53 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-30 14:04 -0400
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 06:17 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-02 11:54 -0400
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 09:12 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-02 12:46 -0400
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 10:27 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 09:49 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 13:22 -0500
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-02 13:00 -0400
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 13:35 -0500
                Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 14:21 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 14:47 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 06:01 -0500
                Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 12:54 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 16:58 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 17:09 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 06:53 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 06:11 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 09:52 -0500
                Re: Point particle moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-03 15:46 +0000
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 13:17 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 16:27 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 19:03 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 22:43 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Buck Futter" <invalide@example.com> - 2016-04-30 13:56 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 01:54 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 17:21 -0500
                Re: Point particle jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-04-26 11:27 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 14:15 -0500
                Re: Point particle jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-04-27 03:27 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 04:56 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 08:16 -0500
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 05:07 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 05:11 -0700
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 05:30 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 05:35 -0700
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 05:46 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 05:52 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 08:20 -0500
                Re: Point particle edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-04-27 10:37 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-27 11:34 -0400
                Re: Point particle edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-04-27 10:42 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 12:49 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 10:59 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 13:23 -0500
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 01:50 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 01:45 -0700
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 04:51 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 05:06 -0700
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 05:48 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 05:51 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-28 09:33 -0400
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 07:47 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-28 22:45 -0400
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 00:27 -0700
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 02:03 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 03:32 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 05:12 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-28 09:06 -0400
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-28 09:06 -0400
                Re: Point particle moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-27 13:42 +0000
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 01:47 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 01:27 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 01:31 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 01:25 -0700
        Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 13:10 -0700
          Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 16:02 -0500
            Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 14:31 -0700
              Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 16:42 -0500
              Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 16:46 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 15:36 -0700
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 16:45 -0700
                Re: Point particle ClutterFreak <clutterfreakincarnate@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 16:31 -0700
                Re: Point particle "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-04-25 16:51 -0700
                Re: Point particle ClutterFreak <clutterfreakincarnate@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 17:53 -0700
                Re: Point particle "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-04-25 18:35 -0700
                Re: Point particle ClutterFreak <clutterfreakincarnate@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 19:07 -0700
                Re: Point particle Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 19:17 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-25 22:40 -0400
                Re: Point particle ClutterFreak <clutterfreakincarnate@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 21:19 -0700
                Re: Point particle ClutterFreak <clutterfreakincarnate@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 20:54 -0700
                Re: Point particle Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 21:12 -0700
                Re: Point particle ClutterFreak <clutterfreakincarnate@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 21:27 -0700
                Re: Point particle Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 21:42 -0700
                Re: Point particle ClutterFreak <clutterfreakincarnate@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 21:59 -0700
                Re: Point particle Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 23:14 -0700
                Re: Point particle ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-04-29 22:31 -0500
                Re: Point particle "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-04-29 21:22 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-26 03:14 -0400
                Re: Point particle "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-04-25 21:39 -0700
                Re: Point particle "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-04-25 21:06 -0700
                Re: Point particle ClutterFreak <clutterfreakincarnate@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 21:33 -0700
                Re: Point particle "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-04-25 21:58 -0700
                Re: Point particle ClutterFreak <clutterfreakincarnate@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 22:09 -0700
                Re: Point particle "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-04-25 22:41 -0700
                Re: Is any of this true, "ClutterFreak" ? ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-05-02 08:08 -0500
                Re: Is any of this true, "ClutterFreak" ? "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-05-02 11:08 -0700
                Re: Is any of this true, "ClutterFreak" ? "Anon E. Mouse" <nobody@home.invalid> - 2016-05-03 08:25 -0400
                Re: Is any of this true, "ClutterFreak" ? "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-05-03 08:36 -0700
      Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 07:45 -0500
        Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 05:50 -0700
          Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 14:24 -0500
        Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 06:07 -0700
          Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 14:23 -0500
          Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 00:42 -0700
  Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 00:25 -0700
    Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-25 04:19 -0400
      Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 05:18 -0700
        Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 05:23 -0700
          Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 05:30 -0700
        Re: Point particle Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 07:27 -0700
      Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 00:50 -0700
  Re: Point particle "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 11:01 -0700
    Re: Point particle Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 15:47 -0500
      Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 13:53 -0700
      Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 14:33 -0700
        Re: Point particle Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 16:37 -0500
  Re: Point particle "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 13:03 -0700
    Re: Point particle Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 15:52 -0500
  Re: Point particle "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 15:44 -0700
  Re: Point particle "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 20:19 -0700
    Re: Point particle Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 19:49 -0500
  Re: Point particle Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 07:38 -0500

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