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Re: Point particle

From Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Re: Point particle
Date 2016-04-25 08:05 -0500
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <nfl4nh$b2s$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References <pLSdnZYk1M6064bKnZ2dnUU7-U-dnZ2d@giganews.com> <deb118d8-9abf-415a-abf0-ea93efa35f9d@googlegroups.com> <c7b05405-5e15-4d1f-aad6-430630aec281@googlegroups.com> <e8c76c62-4882-4e29-a02c-f3574710d00a@googlegroups.com> <15f7cd4e-82da-4206-acad-ea073ccc3fda@googlegroups.com>

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On 4/25/2016 7:32 AM, john wrote:
> HVAC
> You tard.
> Yes.
> Idealization is necessary.
> No.
> It doesn't mean that
> point particles
> or
> 2D surfaces
> or extra (more than 3) dimensions
> exist.
> You, too, Odd
>

So here's the thing about that, John.

Yes, physical models are idealizations. They all are. There's a simple 
reason for that. Every single physical situation is a one-off, a 
one-of-a-kind, something that makes it unique. But a model is something 
that you are supposed to be able to use over and over and over again, to 
apply to multiple physical situations. To make that work, there are 
certain aspects in each and every physical situation that you are going 
to ignore, provided you can demonstrate that the influence of those 
ignored things is small. This is what idealization is -- ignoring all 
those little details that make each case different, so that you can 
treat them the same. This is heart and soul of science. If you don't buy 
it, then you don't buy into science.

Now then, this leaves models like point particles. Here, there's an 
important principle, called validation by experiment. If a model that 
involves point particles accurately matches experimental data, then that 
model is validated. Since this is true for point particle models, then 
point particle models are validated. Now, you can ask, "But what if the 
particles are NOT REALLY points, but instead have structure that is too 
small to be detected?" But science will answer, "Then that is a detail 
that is one of those things that gets ignored because it makes no 
difference in the answer." That is, if for all measurement purposes, 
real particles behave AS IF they are point particles, then as far as 
science is concerned, they ARE point particles. It's only if there is 
MEASURABLE evidence that they do NOT behave like point particles, that 
there is reason to not apply that model.

You don't think that way, but this is how scientists think.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Thread

Point particle Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 08:18 -0500
  Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 06:33 -0700
    Re: Point particle Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 07:51 -0700
      Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 08:00 -0700
        Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-23 12:59 -0400
    Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-23 12:57 -0400
      Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 10:47 -0700
        Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-23 23:27 -0400
  Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 06:41 -0700
  Re: Point particle Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-04-23 14:19 -0700
  Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 14:48 -0700
    Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 05:18 -0700
      Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 05:27 -0700
        Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 05:32 -0700
          Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 08:05 -0500
            Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 06:17 -0700
              Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 06:39 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 07:16 -0700
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 07:57 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 08:32 -0700
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 08:51 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-25 13:29 -0400
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 14:23 -0500
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 00:32 -0700
              Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 14:23 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 12:32 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 12:40 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 15:12 -0500
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 14:59 -0500
                Re: Point particle moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-25 20:24 +0000
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 13:44 -0700
            Re: Point particle jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-04-25 10:38 -0700
              Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 11:00 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-25 21:34 -0400
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 18:51 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-25 22:36 -0400
              Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 07:41 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 07:33 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 10:06 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 08:19 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 10:39 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 10:26 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 14:09 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 12:15 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 14:20 -0500
                Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 15:03 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 17:21 -0500
                Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 15:26 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 19:47 -0500
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-26 21:29 -0400
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 07:35 -0500
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 01:35 -0700
                Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 15:08 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 19:32 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 01:03 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 02:04 -0700
                Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 16:10 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 00:16 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 08:39 -0500
                Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 19:37 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-30 00:38 -0400
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 04:56 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-30 12:23 -0400
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 09:35 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 12:41 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 10:47 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 13:37 -0500
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 02:38 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Buck Futter" <invalide@example.com> - 2016-05-03 11:49 -0700
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 11:00 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-02 15:03 -0400
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 13:15 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 14:35 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-02 21:22 -0400
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 09:41 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 10:22 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-30 13:36 -0400
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 10:53 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-30 14:04 -0400
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 06:17 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-02 11:54 -0400
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 09:12 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-02 12:46 -0400
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 10:27 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 09:49 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 13:22 -0500
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-02 13:00 -0400
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 13:35 -0500
                Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 14:21 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 14:47 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 06:01 -0500
                Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 12:54 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 16:58 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 17:09 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 06:53 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 06:11 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 09:52 -0500
                Re: Point particle moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-03 15:46 +0000
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 13:17 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 16:27 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 19:03 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 22:43 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Buck Futter" <invalide@example.com> - 2016-04-30 13:56 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 01:54 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 17:21 -0500
                Re: Point particle jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-04-26 11:27 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 14:15 -0500
                Re: Point particle jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-04-27 03:27 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 04:56 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 08:16 -0500
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 05:07 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 05:11 -0700
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 05:30 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 05:35 -0700
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 05:46 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 05:52 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 08:20 -0500
                Re: Point particle edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-04-27 10:37 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-27 11:34 -0400
                Re: Point particle edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-04-27 10:42 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 12:49 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 10:59 -0700
                Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 13:23 -0500
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 01:50 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 01:45 -0700
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 04:51 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 05:06 -0700
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 05:48 -0700
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 05:51 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-28 09:33 -0400
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 07:47 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-28 22:45 -0400
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 00:27 -0700
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 02:03 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 03:32 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 05:12 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-28 09:06 -0400
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-28 09:06 -0400
                Re: Point particle moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-27 13:42 +0000
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 01:47 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 01:27 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 01:31 -0700
                Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 01:25 -0700
        Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 13:10 -0700
          Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 16:02 -0500
            Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 14:31 -0700
              Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 16:42 -0500
              Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 16:46 -0500
                Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 15:36 -0700
                Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 16:45 -0700
                Re: Point particle ClutterFreak <clutterfreakincarnate@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 16:31 -0700
                Re: Point particle "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-04-25 16:51 -0700
                Re: Point particle ClutterFreak <clutterfreakincarnate@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 17:53 -0700
                Re: Point particle "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-04-25 18:35 -0700
                Re: Point particle ClutterFreak <clutterfreakincarnate@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 19:07 -0700
                Re: Point particle Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 19:17 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-25 22:40 -0400
                Re: Point particle ClutterFreak <clutterfreakincarnate@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 21:19 -0700
                Re: Point particle ClutterFreak <clutterfreakincarnate@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 20:54 -0700
                Re: Point particle Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 21:12 -0700
                Re: Point particle ClutterFreak <clutterfreakincarnate@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 21:27 -0700
                Re: Point particle Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 21:42 -0700
                Re: Point particle ClutterFreak <clutterfreakincarnate@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 21:59 -0700
                Re: Point particle Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 23:14 -0700
                Re: Point particle ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-04-29 22:31 -0500
                Re: Point particle "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-04-29 21:22 -0700
                Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-26 03:14 -0400
                Re: Point particle "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-04-25 21:39 -0700
                Re: Point particle "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-04-25 21:06 -0700
                Re: Point particle ClutterFreak <clutterfreakincarnate@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 21:33 -0700
                Re: Point particle "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-04-25 21:58 -0700
                Re: Point particle ClutterFreak <clutterfreakincarnate@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 22:09 -0700
                Re: Point particle "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-04-25 22:41 -0700
                Re: Is any of this true, "ClutterFreak" ? ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-05-02 08:08 -0500
                Re: Is any of this true, "ClutterFreak" ? "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-05-02 11:08 -0700
                Re: Is any of this true, "ClutterFreak" ? "Anon E. Mouse" <nobody@home.invalid> - 2016-05-03 08:25 -0400
                Re: Is any of this true, "ClutterFreak" ? "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-05-03 08:36 -0700
      Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 07:45 -0500
        Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 05:50 -0700
          Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 14:24 -0500
        Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 06:07 -0700
          Re: Point particle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 14:23 -0500
          Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 00:42 -0700
  Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 00:25 -0700
    Re: Point particle benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-25 04:19 -0400
      Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 05:18 -0700
        Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 05:23 -0700
          Re: Point particle HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 05:30 -0700
        Re: Point particle Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 07:27 -0700
      Re: Point particle "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 00:50 -0700
  Re: Point particle "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 11:01 -0700
    Re: Point particle Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 15:47 -0500
      Re: Point particle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 13:53 -0700
      Re: Point particle "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 14:33 -0700
        Re: Point particle Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 16:37 -0500
  Re: Point particle "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 13:03 -0700
    Re: Point particle Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 15:52 -0500
  Re: Point particle "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 15:44 -0700
  Re: Point particle "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 20:19 -0700
    Re: Point particle Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 19:49 -0500
  Re: Point particle Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 07:38 -0500

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