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Re: H bonds get stronger when asymmetry is restored

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On 3/26/2016 9:58 AM, Poutnik wrote:
> Dne 26/03/2016 v 01:04 James McGinn napsal(a):
>> James McGinn:
>> You are ignoring symmetry, to no good effect.
>>
>> NOY:
>> You don't even know what 'symmetry' means, Jim.
>>
>> James McGinn:
>> Actually I do.  In fact I'm the first person to correctly recognize the
>> significance of the variability of symmetry to determine the variability
>> of polarity. Accordingly, I understand polarity better than anybody.
>
> Ha Ha. Such a selfconfidence is typical for fools,
> not for scientists, regardless of the topic.
>

McGinn has a small problem with data. Diffusion data for example. Let's 
suppose we take McGinn's stance that, besides molecules, a gas might 
contain clusters of molecules called microdroplets, where we have 
defined "gas" to be any substance that obeys Boyle's/Mariotte's Law and 
Charles'/Guy-Lussac's Law, is not a bulk liquid or bulk solid, and 
consists of some kind of particles. Indeed, when those laws were 
established, the notion of molecules or atoms were not central or 
assumed. In fact, even in kinetic theory, the basic assumptions are 
wholly consistent with this notion of gas, as long as the microdroplets 
don't condense or aggregate; all that's needed is some sort of particle 
with long travel times between interactions and elastic collisions, 
which microdroplets are presumed to satisfy. (If they don't, then the 
microdroplet notion fails on not matching these gas laws.)

Directly from kinetic theory, the rms speed of the particles is given by
v=sqrt(3PV/Nm)
or, taking a standard pressure and volume,
v ~ 1/sqrt(m).
This is pretty straightforward to use, and one can obtain that at STP, v 
for oxygen molecules should be 460 m/s, and because hydrogen molecules 
are 16 times lighter, v for hydrogen molecules will be 1840 m/s.

This rms speed affects everything from the speed of sound (which is why 
the pitch in an organ pipe filled with helium is higher than the pitch 
in an organ pipe filled with air) to diffusion. The diffusion 
coefficient is directly proportional to the thermal speed.

Thus, one can test McGinn's hypothesis of water microdroplets as 
particles in gas, simply by measuring the relative diffusion in a 
heterogeneous gas. For example, the molecular weight of water is 18 
g/mol and the molecular weight of neon is 20 g/mol. A neon-water-vapor 
mix will then diffuse with both components at approximately the same 
diffusion rate. But if we suppose that the water is actually in 
microdroplet particles of, say, 16 molecules or so, then the diffusion 
rate for water would be 4 times smaller than that of neon. You could do 
the same diffusion test for argon-water-vapor or xenon-water-vapor mixes 
to determine the average weight of the water vapor particles. You could 
do the same with water vapor and toluene (mol. wt = 92 g/mol) or any 
other similar gaseous solvent of choice.

McGinn might be deeply grieved to learn that relative diffusion 
measurements have already been done, but would recommend that he collect 
the data himself so that there is no doubt in his mind.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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H bonds get stronger when asymmetry is restored James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-03-25 17:04 -0700
  Re: H bonds get stronger when asymmetry is restored "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-03-26 01:38 -0700
    Re: H bonds get stronger when asymmetry is restored James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-03-26 08:14 -0700
      Re: H bonds get stronger when asymmetry is restored "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-03-27 23:10 -0700
        Re: H bonds get stronger when asymmetry is restored Solving Tornadoes <solvingtornadoes@gmail.com> - 2016-03-27 23:37 -0700
  Re: H bonds get stronger when asymmetry is restored Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-03-26 15:58 +0100
    Re: H bonds get stronger when asymmetry is restored Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-03-28 08:53 -0500
      Re: H bonds get stronger when asymmetry is restored Solving Tornadoes <solvingtornadoes@gmail.com> - 2016-03-28 11:40 -0700
      Re: H bonds get stronger when asymmetry is restored Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-03-28 14:38 -0500
        Re: H bonds get stronger when asymmetry is restored Solving Tornadoes <solvingtornadoes@gmail.com> - 2016-03-28 12:49 -0700
        Re: H bonds get stronger when asymmetry is restored Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-03-28 15:04 -0500
          Re: H bonds get stronger when asymmetry is restored Solving Tornadoes <solvingtornadoes@gmail.com> - 2016-03-28 13:38 -0700
          Re: H bonds get stronger when asymmetry is restored Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-03-28 15:54 -0500
            Re: H bonds get stronger when asymmetry is restored Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-03-28 16:06 -0500
              Re: H bonds get stronger when asymmetry is restored Solving Tornadoes <solvingtornadoes@gmail.com> - 2016-03-28 14:24 -0700
            Re: H bonds get stronger when asymmetry is restored Solving Tornadoes <solvingtornadoes@gmail.com> - 2016-03-28 14:19 -0700

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