Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad

From	Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid>
Newsgroups	alt.usage.english
Subject	Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad
Date	2026-06-21 06:08 +0100
Message-ID	<n9p9tsFahjoU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <cp093l1bsm8rfiv5dijbiso6ttqos6ia5s@4ax.com> <n9k3n8Fg14nU1@mid.individual.net> <r0qb3l1herlsaocf1i966u5fc1t9nrnldt@4ax.com> <n9mov1Fsjj8U1@mid.individual.net> <tdme3llnbubsmrrls756qd4e6sfr0l5l3c@4ax.com>

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Le 21/06/2026 à 04:33, Steve Hayes a écrit :
> Hibou wrote:
>>
>> Anyway, can I justify "Technology has become pervasive"? I think so.
>> Back in the 1950s, no-one had a mobile phone. Rail and air tickets were
>> pieces of paper and card, not QR codes or RFID cards. We paid with coins
>> and notes, not bank cards. We found our way about with paper maps, not
>> apps…. Many of our systems now depend on satellites - agriculture,
>> aviation, emergency services, finance, railways, shipping, road
>> transport, and others.
> 
> But rail and air travel are themselves technology, and rail, in
> particular relies on one of the oldest forms or technology -- the
> wheel. Paper tickets were printed using printing technology.

That's true. If you look at the whole process, though, technology is 
applied to more steps and has become more complicated. Driving to the 
station in a 2020s car involves a lot of electronics that weren't on a 
1950s bicycle, or even in a 1950s car. The station very likely no longer 
has staff, but mechanical-electronic barriers linked to billing 
computers. The train is electric, controlled by electronics, with 
electronic signalling, tracking, and communications…. It's a long way 
from shovelling coal into an overgrown kettle, and metal signals 
operated by wires and cranks.

> The threat is not technology, but the use to which it is put, which is
> not technology but sociology. We already have the Big Brother society
> envisaged by George Orwell in 1948. The problem is not technology, but
> the use of technology to enforce social control.

I think there are several aspects to the problem. One is dependency: the 
national grid failing as the result of a cyberattack, for instance. 
Another is opaqueness: even experts understand only a fraction of how 
things work. Just fetching a web page, for example, is more complicated 
than one might imagine:

<https://www.catchpoint.com/blog/http-transaction-steps>

And with AI and climate models, we just have to trust the computers. 
This opaqueness facilitates surveillance and control. I've mentioned 
'smart' tellies and how they spy on their users. If the same data had to 
be gathered by a human spy sat on the sofa next to them, people would 
instantly object and send him packing.

It's no wonder that some would like to return to simpler times.

Thread

[OT] You've never had it so bad Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-06-17 14:31 +0100
  Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-06-17 18:01 +0200
    Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-06-17 17:10 +0000
      Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> - 2026-06-17 13:59 -0400
        Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-06-17 19:09 +0000
          Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> - 2026-06-17 15:43 -0400
            Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Julian <julianlzb87@gmail.com> - 2026-06-17 21:54 +0100
              Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> - 2026-06-17 17:28 -0400
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Julian <julianlzb87@gmail.com> - 2026-06-17 23:00 +0100
        Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-06-18 13:48 +0000
          Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-06-18 19:56 -0400
            Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-06-19 06:51 +0100
              Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-06-19 16:47 +1000
              Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-06-20 03:26 +0200
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 23:37 -0400
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-06-20 07:06 +0100
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-06-20 07:08 +0100
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-06-21 05:33 +0200
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-06-21 06:08 +0100
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-06-21 08:27 +0200
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad HVS <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> - 2026-06-21 12:49 +0100
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-06-22 06:30 +0100
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-06-21 19:05 +0100
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-06-22 07:42 +1000
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-06-22 06:27 +0100
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-06-22 12:37 +0100
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-06-23 08:33 +0200
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-06-23 10:04 +0000
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-06-23 20:32 +1000
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-06-23 13:36 +0100
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-06-23 15:26 +0100
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-06-24 01:16 +0200
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-06-23 15:29 +0100
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-06-23 16:34 +0100
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-06-23 14:03 -0700
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad HVS <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> - 2026-06-24 09:41 +0100
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-06-24 10:54 +0200
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad HVS <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> - 2026-06-25 11:59 +0100
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-06-24 04:44 +0530
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-06-24 12:29 +0200
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-06-22 14:13 +0200
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-06-22 13:16 +0000
                Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-06-22 16:03 +0100
          Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-06-19 09:05 +0200
            Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-06-19 17:31 +1000
    Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-06-17 17:30 +0000
      Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-06-17 21:15 +0200
      Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-06-18 14:26 +0100
      Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-06-18 22:00 +0100
    Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-06-18 06:48 +0100
      Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-06-18 06:51 +0100
      Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-06-18 08:28 +0200
        Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-06-18 08:06 +0100
  Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-06-17 12:26 -0700
    Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-06-18 09:26 +0100
      Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-06-18 10:59 +0200
        Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> - 2026-06-18 09:13 +0000
          Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Julian <julianlzb87@gmail.com> - 2026-06-18 12:49 +0100
      Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-06-18 20:49 +1000
        Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-06-22 16:07 +0100
      Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-06-19 13:26 +0200
        Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Julian <julianlzb87@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 13:17 +0100
        Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-06-22 13:52 +0100
          Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-06-22 22:05 +0100
            Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-06-23 06:58 +0100
              Re: [OT] You've never had it so bad Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-06-24 05:45 +0200

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