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Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony

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On 2/2/2016 3:11 PM, benj wrote:
> On 02/02/2016 08:26 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 2/1/2016 8:17 PM, benj wrote:
>>> On 02/01/2016 02:59 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> On 2/1/2016 1:53 PM, benj wrote:
>>>>> Actually only people with an interest in science and and truth get to
>>>>> see paranormal "stuff".
>>>>
>>>> This is like Henry Wilson saying that anyone who would accept anything
>>>> that Einstein says or accept the evidence in support of relativity
>>>> is BY
>>>> DEFINITION not a scientist.
>>>>
>>>> People say the goofiest things just to get a rise out of others.
>>>
>>> True. You and H&V and all the other true believers here so say the
>>> goofiest things. Here. Allow me to show you how goofy and ignorant you
>>> are! What do scientists do? I'm sure you believe "scientists" read text
>>> books and attend lectures where they memorize all "explanations" to the
>>> smallest detail and then repeat them to "convert" others by "professing"
>>> them. This of course it totally false. Scientists search for truth and
>>> do that with experiments and observations. Hence only a person who is
>>> ready to OBSERVE experiments and OBSERVE and record phenomena will have
>>> any hope of actually seeing any results that suggest paranormal
>>> phenomena.
>>>
>>> But why do I say "only" people with an interest in science (more exactly
>>> the scientific method?) Just look at clowns like you, H&V and the rest
>>> here. You all have an agenda to promote. Furthermore, you REFUSE to
>>> observe or even acknowledge any observations that might go against your
>>> agenda. In your case every fact must be censored and ONLY come from
>>> approved sources. Actual observations EVEN BY YOU, are not accepted as
>>> true. Same goes for HVAC. Even when given actual chapter and verse of
>>> experiments and observations (for example all the massive studies of
>>> remote viewing by the government with very strict scientific controls)
>>> he simply refuses to even acknowledge that such even exists let alone
>>> actually read the sources. Same for you. Your fantasy world is the polar
>>> opposite of science.
>>>
>>> So basically it is obvious that ONLY a person with an open mind ready to
>>> test and observe phenomena and then truthfully record the results has
>>> any hope of observing anything that does not fit into the "accepted"
>>> stories that you try to pass off as science. In short, you people aren't
>>> into science at all. You are priests for your religious beliefs.
>>>
>>> I've said here many times. Science is not about belief. RELIGION is
>>> about belief. Why don't you clowns take your religion to a proper fundie
>>> forum?
>>>
>>> (Now we can all wait for H&V to repeat once again how "BJ" (that was
>>> really a hilarious joke when I was in the 6th grade) "believes in ESP
>>> and Remote Viewing". Fucking garbage. Now there is a man who never had a
>>> business card that said "scientist" (probably his was totally blank is
>>> my guess))
>>>
>>
>> Repeatable observations, often with a control to show that the
>> hypothesized connection between cause and effect is really there.
>>
>> The kind of observations you are talking about suffer from not being
>> repeatable under controlled circumstances. If they were, then scientists
>> would have brought them into common understanding years ago, if not
>> centuries ago.
>
> Oh that's right! I forgot that lightning is all a hoax by college kids
> and authors trying to get rich with stories of spectacular destruction
> supposedly caused by "electricity" that nobody has ever seen! Got it!

Repeatedly under controlled circumstances does not mean man-made, you 
idiot.

If there is a theory that tells you under what circumstances a star will 
predictably go nova, then locating an instance in the galaxy where those 
circumstances prevail is a good case of repetition under controlled 
circumstances. This does NOT mean that you have to MAKE a star in the 
laboratory and watch it go supernova. Are you deliberately being obtuse?

>
> Even worse is the science paradigm that an experiment can be made where
> the experimenter does not affect the outcome of what he's trying to
> measure. Even non-paranormal science is getting it's nose rubbed in that
> one...unless you consider QM paranormal.

Well, OK, now you're just saying that experimental results are not to be 
trusted and therefore the scientific method that validates theory with 
experiment isn't worthwhile to begin with. Now, tell me again why you 
visit sci.physics?

>
>> Ben, you used the word "paranormal". Do you know what "paranormal"
>> means? It means "to one side of normal" or "beyond normal". Paranormal
>> is defined to mean that which science CANNOT explain. It does not mean
>> what science DOES NOT CHOOSE TO explain. It means what science WILL NOT
>> EVER BE ABLE to explain. And yet you want to make the paranormal the
>> subject of science. Perhaps you can also use science to prove the
>> existence of God, of angels, of demons. After all, THOUSANDS of people
>> have recorded OBSERVATIONS of them.
>
> Ah the old "an explanation is impossible!" routine. I've already
> established that the ONLY way something can be proved "impossible" is
> the show that all possible ways do not apply. Obviously this requires
> "superpowers" and that makes YOU a moron.

Ben, you can EXPLAIN the universe's creation as being a conscious act of 
creative design by the Holy Trinity, if you want. This is an 
EXPLANATION, but it's not a scientific one.

You are apparently claiming that EVERYTHING and ANYTHING that causes 
desire for an explanation should be a subject for science. I disagree. 
Science explores certain kinds of assertions and not others.

> You are just playing Lib word games. Word games are NOT science even
> though you think they are. Paranormal means things which "current
> science" or perhaps "classic science" cannot (or perhaps does not)
> explain.

No sir, that's YOUR leap, not mine. There are things that science is NOT 
DESIGNED to explain, and therefore won't explain. This is not a matter 
of declaring impossibility. It's a matter of knowing which things lie in 
the scientific domain and which things do not. Not everything is a good 
candidate for scientific explanation.

Why does pi have the value it does?
Why are there electrons?
Why are there zebras?
What are the laws of physics in inaccessible universes other than ours?
Does God exist?
Are there beings that exist but carefully leave no trace of their own 
existence?
Why did Hitler come to be?

> Your leap to say that such things are and always will be
> impossible for science to explain is babbling kook gibberish!
>
> So if THOUSANDS of people have seen "angels" or "demons" just as many
> more than that have seen UFOs, certainly is a STRONG indication that
> there some sort of phenomena there that needs explanation and
> investigation. The idea of you and HVAC that you already KNOW what the
> phenomena is is simply blustering little man ego. Exactly WHAT those
> phenomena are is a different question.

Explanation and investigation, fine. Go ahead and investigate it. It's 
just not SCIENCE. Not every investigation is science.


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God  ~ His Personal Testimony "Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net> - 2016-01-28 23:39 -0800
  Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God  ~ His Personal Testimony Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> - 2016-01-29 08:04 +0000
    Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God  ~ His Personal Testimony Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-01-29 02:06 -0600
    Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God  ~ His Personal Testimony "Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net> - 2016-01-29 00:22 -0800
      Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God  ~ His Personal Testimony Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> - 2016-01-29 09:02 +0000
        Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God  ~ His Personal Testimony Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-01-29 01:12 -0800
          Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God  ~ His Personal Testimony Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-01-29 03:25 -0600
            Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God  ~ His Personal Testimony john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 02:38 -0800
        Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God  ~ His Personal Testimony "Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net> - 2016-01-29 11:21 -0800
          Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God  ~ His Personal Testimony bilgat@m.nu - 2016-01-29 15:29 -0600
  Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con> - 2016-01-29 10:04 -0800
    Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony "Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net> - 2016-01-29 11:18 -0800
      Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 14:32 -0500
        Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-01-29 13:54 -0600
      Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony Peter Pan - 2016-01-30 06:29 +0800
      Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con> - 2016-01-29 14:36 -0800
        Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 17:08 -0800
  Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God  ~ His Personal Testimony bilgat@m.nu - 2016-01-29 15:26 -0600
  Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-01-31 14:16 +1100
    Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> - 2016-01-31 08:27 +0000
      Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-31 03:51 -0800
        Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-31 10:29 -0500
        Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-31 22:48 -0800
          Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-01 08:14 -0800
            Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-01 14:46 -0500
      Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony "Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net> - 2016-02-01 03:09 -0800
        Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony Don't Touch Me There <Obamas.Brain.Is.Here@blackhole.nebulax.com> - 2016-02-01 07:17 -0800
          Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-01 08:24 -0800
            Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-01 10:19 -0800
              Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-01 11:04 -0800
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-01 11:39 -0800
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-01 17:47 -0800
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-01 14:53 -0500
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-01 13:59 -0600
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-01 21:17 -0500
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-02 07:26 -0600
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-02 05:59 -0800
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-02 09:59 -0600
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-02 08:10 -0800
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-02 08:13 -0800
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-02 08:27 -0800
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-02 09:11 -0800
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-02 16:16 -0500
                BJ Still Believes In Ghosts HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-02 06:10 -0800
                Re: BJ Still Believes In Ghosts benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-02 16:14 -0500
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-02 16:11 -0500
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-02 16:22 -0600
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-02 17:35 -0800
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-02 22:53 -0500
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-03 03:08 -0800
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-03 03:34 -0800
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-03 13:32 -0500
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-03 00:25 -0500
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-03 08:30 -0600
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-03 06:55 -0800
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-03 13:46 -0500
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 22:22 -0500
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-10 04:54 -0800
                Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-10 13:20 -0500
            Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-01 14:47 -0500
          Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony Irreverend Dave <reverend_dave@ministerpants.com> - 2016-02-02 00:35 +0000
            Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony "Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net> - 2016-02-01 17:07 -0800
        Re: Another Atheist Dies....& Finds God ~ His Personal Testimony HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-01 17:52 -0800

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